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Old 20-06-2015, 13:20   #31
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Re: How white is too white?

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Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga View Post
Um… "natural" is chemical. And the artificial sunscreens are proven by and large to work. Mechanical just fine of course… but really, "nature" tries to kill you all the damn time, notice that you need protection from the sun, for example? A bit like "natural" foods. Ever noticed how almost none of the plants in the world are actually edible? The ones you find down the "wholefoods" shop are genetically modified by millennnia of selective breeding. Plants are full of toxins evolved to make them poisonous and hard to eat… for good reason.

"Natural" sunscreen? "Herbal" sunscreen? Because "nature" was concerned to produce things to lather on the skin of naked apes who have spent a portion of their evolutionary history in areas of poor light and by necessity clothing? If you are white it is because your ancestors were forced to lose their highly melanated skin protection because they needed to supplement already poor Northern diets with sun generated vitamin D. Believe me "nature" didn't think about this in advance and provide remedies which are better than those proven to work by modern science.

And like I said previously, ALL nature is "chemical". And indeed by that token all "artificial" products are also, ultimately "natural".

For a particularly beautiful example of this please check out this partial list of the chemical recipe for strawberries:

https://tribalscientist.wordpress.co...-a-strawberry/
Yes you are correct, everything is made of chemicals of some kind. But looking at the chemical make up of olive oil or coconut oil (SPF 7) compared to the ingredients list on the back of a sunscreen bottle I can make an easy choice. I've never used chemical sun protection but figured if I do it won't be something that may cause cancer, like commercial sunscreen.
Just my personal choice.
As for nature trying to kill us, I believe we're winning the war on the environment.

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Old 20-06-2015, 13:23   #32
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Re: How white is too white?

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Just to clarify, I think Belizesailor is referring to the skin on his head. Anyone who knows him realizes that living in hot places got to the rest of his head a long time ago - but that is mostly due to rum and hot sauce…

Mark
So you're saying his head cooked from the inside out?

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Old 20-06-2015, 14:04   #33
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Re: How white is too white?

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Originally Posted by goat View Post
Yes you are correct, everything is made of chemicals of some kind. But looking at the chemical make up of olive oil or coconut oil (SPF 7) compared to the ingredients list on the back of a sunscreen bottle I can make an easy choice. I've never used chemical sun protection but figured if I do it won't be something that may cause cancer, like commercial sunscreen.
Just my personal choice.
As for nature trying to kill us, I believe we're winning the war on the environment.

goat
Well I am quite CERTAIN that there is no evidence to support the cancer causing claim you just made, or else those products would be withdrawn from sale. Online discussion groups on "naturopath" websites don't count, however, as evidence, and may indeed count as the opposite. As to us "winning a war" on "nature"? Well, we are causing the 6th Mass Extinction event and possibly the fastest. The others were all caused by, well, Nature, almost all of which is lifeless, and utterly inimical to life. The majority of visible nature is indeed giant nuclear fusion reactors fusing hydrogen into helium (for the subject at the centre of this discussion) and then the higher elements for more massive ones, so… we are not winning any war on that. And that is nature.

I am well aware that there is a growing trend in movements of the "anti vaccination" variety, being "naturopathic" "homeopathic" and, well, pathological, which spins a line about sunscreen causing cancer, and in some cases a line about sun being completely harmless…

It seems you are not of the latter view, but maybe of the former?
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Old 20-06-2015, 14:05   #34
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Re: How white is too white?

FWIW, your UVA UVB protection polarized glasses protect against pterygia, and macular degeneration, which can make you blind. I'm pretty sure cataracts are caused by aging, but may be wrong about that. Train yourself to wear the shades when the sun is out, even protects against it when it bounces back up at you from the sea.

Use the sunscreen, and wear the hat and cover up. Anyhow, no-see-ums can't bite you through cloth.

Mosquitoes, however, can bite you through cloth, so present a different prophylaxis problem.

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Old 20-06-2015, 14:13   #35
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Re: How white is too white?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goat View Post
Yes you are correct, everything is made of chemicals of some kind. But looking at the chemical make up of olive oil or coconut oil (SPF 7) compared to the ingredients list on the back of a sunscreen bottle I can make an easy choice. I've never used chemical sun protection but figured if I do it won't be something that may cause cancer, like commercial sunscreen.
Just my personal choice.
As for nature trying to kill us, I believe we're winning the war on the environment.

goat
https://www.cancerwa.asn.au/resource...n-cancer-myth/

Myth or Fact Coconut is an effective sunscreen - Mayo Clinic Health System
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Old 20-06-2015, 14:46   #36
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Re: How white is too white?

Google "sun protection buff" then look at the images. Lots of fisher folk around here wear these. You can also get buff arm covers.

We have started wearing them when sailing and find them very comfortable. Lots of cool designs.

You can also get a full sun suit for swimming. Doubles as a stinger suit so no nasty surprises.

I was once on a charter to the reef with about 20 Europeans. The crew said anyone want a sun suit to wear whilst snorkeling? My wife and I being from the tropics said yes, the others said no. The crew then asked if anyone wanted a stinger suit to wear whilst snorkeling, the Europeans all said yes this time round. The crew just laughed and said they are the same thing.

They are not stylish but will stop the sun. You can wear boardies and a shirt over them while on the boat so you don't wear the butt out of them.

Also around here (in the tropics) you don't buy sunscreen unless it is 50+

Zinc cream for ears, nose and lips.
Sailing gloves for hands. Sunnies with a strap.

Wide brimmed hat or legionnaires style.

When going ashore take thongs (sandles, flip flops etc) as the dry sand can get very hot.

Avoid midday sun and drink plenty of fluids.

Lots of great fishing shirts and clothes that are sun smart and look good. Buy stuff that has the UV rating tag on them for piece of mind.

You will be fine.

Enjoy.


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Old 20-06-2015, 15:34   #37
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Re: How white is too white?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga View Post
Well I am quite CERTAIN that there is no evidence to support the cancer causing claim you just made, or else those products would be withdrawn from sale. Online discussion groups on "naturopath" websites don't count, however, as evidence, and may indeed count as the opposite. As to us "winning a war" on "nature"? Well, we are causing the 6th Mass Extinction event and possibly the fastest. The others were all caused by, well, Nature, almost all of which is lifeless, and utterly inimical to life. The majority of visible nature is indeed giant nuclear fusion reactors fusing hydrogen into helium (for the subject at the centre of this discussion) and then the higher elements for more massive ones, so… we are not winning any war on that. And that is nature.

I am well aware that there is a growing trend in movements of the "anti vaccination" variety, being "naturopathic" "homeopathic" and, well, pathological, which spins a line about sunscreen causing cancer, and in some cases a line about sun being completely harmless…

It seems you are not of the latter view, but maybe of the former?
For the love of God don't try to pigeon-hole me. Also just because I used the word God doesn't make me religious. You'll have to troll elsewhere.

goat
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Old 20-06-2015, 16:20   #38
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Re: How white is too white?

Get yourself a few long sleeved surf shirts, a straw hat and some surf shorts. Make sure that they contain no cotton so they dry quickly. In case you didn't know surf shirts look like this.
Amazon.com: Hurley Men's One and Only Long Sleeve Surf Shirt, Black, Small: Clothing

When it's windy wear a canvas hat which won't blow around so much.
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Old 20-06-2015, 16:55   #39
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Re: How white is too white?

I stay under the bimini, but if you must go outside then here's a fairly effective solution:
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Old 20-06-2015, 18:05   #40
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Re: How white is too white?

As a Celtic redhead you have my sympathy, to quote Billy Connolly "I'm not white I'm blue, it takes weeks in the sun for me to turn white". I don't even bother bying sunscreen of less that f30. On the water I use F60. Glacier creen sticks are also useful for nose a cheeks. Always where a hat, dunked in water it also keeps you head cool. I find that if I aclimatize slowly over a few moths it gets better. Regular use of mosturizes is also good, not the expensive cosmetic ones, the basic stuff they use in hospital is cheaper and better. Second the idea of scrubs but better if you can get it is something like the Indians wear, look at traditional clothing warn in hot countries to stay cool and safe.
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Old 20-06-2015, 18:19   #41
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Re: How white is too white?

So... I'm a golf pro and a Canadian.... Yes the other white meat.

A lifetime of exposure and now 26... count 'em 26 surgeries for skin cancer has me very conservative about sun exposure. Long sleeves, long pants, Tilly hat... Sunglasses are the daily routine.

I educate my students regarding exposed skin and comfort vs exposure with the question, "have you ever seen a picture of an Arab in short sleeves?"

My wardrobe is Exofficio .... My go to is the Pastic Surgeon as he is much more accessible than the Dermatologist and he does better knitting. The excision is sent to the same lab for biopsy and I can generally see my Plastics guy this week vs 4-6 weeks for a Dermotoligist in Florida.

Cover up, shade is cool. BUT... Don't forget the reflective qualities of the water that surrounds you.
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Old 20-06-2015, 18:57   #42
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Re: How white is too white?

I reckon that builders and farmers would mostly be dead by 50 if what the sunscreen sellers say was true.

Covering up is good, but don't forget;
Exercise is a major preventative of cancer.
Tons of fruit and vegies another major preventative.
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Old 20-06-2015, 19:35   #43
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Re: How white is too white?

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So... I'm a golf pro and a Canadian.... Yes the other white meat.

A lifetime of exposure and now 26... count 'em 26 surgeries for skin cancer has me very conservative about sun exposure. Long sleeves, long pants, Tilly hat... Sunglasses are the daily routine.

I educate my students regarding exposed skin and comfort vs exposure with the question, "have you ever seen a picture of an Arab in short sleeves?"

My wardrobe is Exofficio .... My go to is the Pastic Surgeon as he is much more accessible than the Dermatologist and he does better knitting. The excision is sent to the same lab for biopsy and I can generally see my Plastics guy this week vs 4-6 weeks for a Dermotoligist in Florida.

Cover up, shade is cool. BUT... Don't forget the reflective qualities of the water that surrounds you.
Hi.

Thanks for posting what you said above. As I mentioned earlier, I have seen some men (met them) who have many cuts on their faces, due to the same problem.

I had a friend who is a Dermatologist, and she showed me the photos of her work and how many people were cut and why (cancer due to exposure). Some looked pretty gruesome, so definitely something to try to prevent.
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Old 20-06-2015, 19:44   #44
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Re: How white is too white?

Wifey B: We are fanatics about sun protection at home and on our boat for ourselves and our guests. High SPF and under canopies and tops. If you want to enjoy the outdoors and the water as much as we do you must take care. And anyone who thinks their tan or their skin color will protect them may be just leading themselves to trouble. Sure some burn and get skin cancer more than others but it happens to all.
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Old 20-06-2015, 21:20   #45
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Re: How white is too white?

Furthermore,

"Black people" also can get sunburned. I gave my aloe plant to a boat in the Sea of Cortez who had a Black guest aboard, who had quite a nasty sunburn. In addition, there are the aging effects to too much UV, which apply across racial lines.

And, yeah, Celtic lobsters are definitely at risk, too.


B & B have it right, here, one owes it to oneself to protect our skin and eyes. How you accomplish that goal will indicate how carefully you thought it out...and the quality of your research.


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