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Old 20-06-2015, 08:23   #16
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Re: How white is too white?

I was lucky, my Father's Southern European genes trumped my Mom's Scottish genes. Anyway I've never trusted a chemical product that can stop the sun on my skin. I use mechanical sunblocks when I can. I just started looking at natural products SPF factors as I am hoping not to see any more winters. Interesting stuff here.
Source; In vitro sun protection factor determination of herbal oils used in cosmetics
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Old 20-06-2015, 08:54   #17
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Re: How white is too white?

I too have a very fair complexion. I am sure that my skin-cancer is dominated by the numerous bad sunburns I had in my pre-SPF childhood.

I apply sunscreen religiously, always wear sunglasses (UV is really terrible for your eyes). In the tropics, having good canvas is really important, you want to be in the shade as much as possible when using the cockpit.

After several months in the tropics, even though I never get anywhere close to a sunburn, my skin definitely darkens. I wouldn't go as far as "bronze," but you can certainly distinguish my arms and legs from my torso. I have found that this tanning certainly improves my ability to tolerate the sun. When I get back to my northern summer home, I find I can manage quite a bit more sun exposure without burning than when I left. At least until I fade back to my usual pasty white.

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Old 20-06-2015, 09:07   #18
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Re: How white is too white?

as i have wonderfully WASP genes going back 9000 yrs into celtdom, i found in my youth i was sun burned within 15 mins of exposure.
this has not changed in my old ages.. however, long sleeves, biminis, dodgers and shade have been my friend. no not white to neon canadiandom..lol they glow in darkness, i have developed a protective layer of not neon that is kept well in check by remaining under cover, which can be a problem requiring creative tarping with alternative coverings, not canvas, which prevents required air flow. these covers can be purchased by those with limited funds in homeless despot, or by those with a sense of aesthetix from a canvas maker for lotsadough.
i am without lotsadough, so homeless despot is my bestest friend at present, until i figger out a way to cover a ketch in tropics without blocking air flow yet keeping rain off topsides during cane seasons.
at present i have a ccombo of both canvas and screening to prevent scorching my skin and hurting my eyes .
color white is not appropriate for covers in tropics as i it is way too brilliant in sun and makes headpain in those of us meant for lesser brightville. (photophobia)
oh yes, and toss in an allergy to the sunscreens sold, i do not use em, as well as fact that the greasy and oily and creme based products feel like yukk on skin in tropics.
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Old 20-06-2015, 09:19   #19
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Re: How white is too white?

A big bimini is a good start. And a brimmed hat you can live in. Some mesh coverup clothes will help. Lots of sunblock too.

Its the burns that do the most damage...the sudden change from low UV to high UV every day. So at first, you will need to take many precautions, outlined in previous posts. However, as your skin acclimatizes to the high UV, you will have more resistance to burning. The melatonin in your skin is your bodies own sunblock. It takes weeks, if not months to develop this resistance. Most "tourists" fly down in the winter and burn the crap out of their skin...thats the dangerous part. Not much different than the weekend warrior who sits at a desk all week, then on saturday goes out in the noon sun.
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Old 20-06-2015, 09:39   #20
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Re: How white is too white?

Clothing and " Bullfrog " sun screen developed for surfers works for me. More water resistant.
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Old 20-06-2015, 09:42   #21
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Re: How white is too white?

You don't have to get "burned" to suffer damage to your skin. And not all sunscreens protect against both UVA and UVB. Find out about "broad-spectrum" sunscreen.
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Old 20-06-2015, 09:58   #22
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Re: How white is too white?

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
no not white to neon canadiandom..lol they glow in darkness,
Canadians; the other white meat.


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Old 20-06-2015, 10:03   #23
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Re: How white is too white?

Wow! You white people got it rough! .... But then again even with my healthy portion of pigment, shade, hats, long sleeves and a bit of sunscreen is essential.
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Old 20-06-2015, 10:32   #24
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Re: How white is too white?

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I never use sunscreen or apply any chemicals to my skin. I don't dump bleach in my water, either. It's a personal thing. I do avoid the sun whenever possible, as do most people who live in the tropics full time. We see plenty of bronzers, and they rarely live here full time. They try to get as tan as they can while here so they can impress people back home, I suppose. People who live in the sun know better. I see the effects of UV every day of my life. It's radiation.

But relying on sun screen is dangerous, too. Just get caught out in the sun for one day without it after relying on it. You'll fry. Use shade instead of slathering on chemicals. Hats and long sleeve shirts. Watch how the gardeners dress on a tropical island. They don't buy sunscreen.
Word. A friend gave me some elizabeth Arden product, skin toned, that went on thick and stayed on while surfing all day in Fiji. A total barrier is the only truly effective sun protection. Clothing as everyone says is key. But you don't need clothing at night!😈
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Old 20-06-2015, 10:45   #25
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Re: How white is too white?

My experience with sunscreens led me to see it as basically another chemical dependency.

I was working offshore, off Dampier Australia, doing the oceanograhic work on the Rankin field. I flew over from a New England winter (pasty white) and the job required me to spend six to eight hours a day on deck running a winch, deploying and retrieving deep ocean Niskin bottles and a CTD sensor array. For the first time in my life, I was using sunscreen. Worked okay for about a week. Then one morning I woke up and couldn't find my sunscreen. Still had to spend six hours in the sun. Unprepared. I thought I was going to have to be hospitalized. Painful burns, and all I had was t-shirts and shorts. Everything exposed burnt badly. Clear blisters, the whole thing. The burns bled, if that makes any sense. At 20K per day for the boat, the job had to go on. I lost a lot of skin. I managed to cobble together clothes from other guys on the crew, but after that I never again got dependent on sunscreen. That tube can go away, and the withdrawal is a bitch.

Besides, didn't you know those chemicals are really bad for you?
http://time.com/3056125/you-asked-is...need-it-daily/
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Old 20-06-2015, 11:07   #26
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Re: How white is too white?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
The key point here is that both had the melanoma appear on their lower body (legs).
Ditto this. A colleague's wife passed away from melanoma which originated as a small patch on the bottom of her foot. The doctor dismissed it as not the primary cancer and she later died.

Here are the ABCDE's of skin cancer:
Do You Know Your ABCDEs? - SkinCancer.org

A-Assymiterical, B-Border, C-Color, D-Diameter, E-Evolving

My friend who sails with us always dresses to cover for the sun and snoozes in the shade. He goes for the "pasty white boy" look as he says it, and while I haven't lived by that for many years, I'm now covering up more too.

So to the OP, you can't be too white.
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Old 20-06-2015, 11:16   #27
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Re: How white is too white?

I'm a fair skinned farmer and sailor, so I've had to work at it pretty hard. Indiscretion in my twenties and thirties left their mark,,especially on the backs of my hands and on my cheekbones and tops of my ears.

I'm amazed at how protective people are of their skin in Vietnam where I spent the winter. Women wear hoodies and gloves in 95 degree weather, covering up completely, so all you see are their eyes peeking out. Actually quite alluring, I was surprised to discover.....

I like to get some exposure early in the day, then I lock it down. Long sleeve shirts, hat, and sunscreen for the spots I mentioned. It is a good idea to have lots of shade and cover options, but I view sunscreen as an important element in the mix. I put it on my hands and face by 7'am or so these days.

I cringe when I look at some of my cousins, women who have tried to stay tan their entire life, who are now aging quickly and have loads of skin damage. Compare that to a typical viet woman, who aspires to be whiter, and protects her skin at all costs. Even at 60, their skin looks incredible. Lots of fish oil and genes don't hurt, but they are really preoccupied with keeping the sun off.

I used that bullfrog crap for a while, but got tired of it staining my clothes. Other sunscreen can do that I guess, but I had a whole wardrobe of shirts with nasty brownish/orange stains from bullfrog. I'm using some Aussie stuff I paid a fortune for in Phnom Penh now, Hamilton.

We're forest people dude....


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Old 20-06-2015, 11:17   #28
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Re: How white is too white?

They don't call me "Red" for nothing. I asked my dermatologist what his advice was when I left to go live on a boat. He looked at me and said "Don't".

After living in Puerto Rico (on land) for 6 years I can confirm most of the above
a) you don't have to lay on the beach to be over-exposed
b) most people neglect the tops of their ears, their feet and the back of their
necks when applying sunscreen.
c) look at and copy the way the local people dress. Lots of light, loose clothing
(sarongs anyone?)
d) the best polarized sunglasses you can buy. I'm told that light eyed people
have increased risk of cataracts after prolonged exposure to the sun. I don't
know if that's valid or not, but why test it?
e) since your boat is now your home make all cockpit, hatch and portlight
decision with shade as a major consideration. Right up there with ventilation,
etc.

After returning to the mainland I had two small skin cancers removed. When I asked the doctor if it was because I had lived in the tropics he told me it was more likely damage I had done when laying out as a teenager trying to acquire that impossible-for-me tan.

When searching for this boat we're on now, finding shade for me was right up there in the top 5 necessary things we needed in a boat. Just keep it always part of your daily decision making and you'll be OK
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Old 20-06-2015, 11:32   #29
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Re: How white is too white?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goat View Post
I was lucky, my Father's Southern European genes trumped my Mom's Scottish genes. Anyway I've never trusted a chemical product that can stop the sun on my skin. I use mechanical sunblocks when I can. I just started looking at natural products SPF factors as I am hoping not to see any more winters. Interesting stuff here.
Source; In vitro sun protection factor determination of herbal oils used in cosmetics
Um… "natural" is chemical. And the artificial sunscreens are proven by and large to work. Mechanical just fine of course… but really, "nature" tries to kill you all the damn time, notice that you need protection from the sun, for example? A bit like "natural" foods. Ever noticed how almost none of the plants in the world are actually edible? The ones you find down the "wholefoods" shop are genetically modified by millennnia of selective breeding. Plants are full of toxins evolved to make them poisonous and hard to eat… for good reason.

"Natural" sunscreen? "Herbal" sunscreen? Because "nature" was concerned to produce things to lather on the skin of naked apes who have spent a portion of their evolutionary history in areas of poor light and by necessity clothing? If you are white it is because your ancestors were forced to lose their highly melanated skin protection because they needed to supplement already poor Northern diets with sun generated vitamin D. Believe me "nature" didn't think about this in advance and provide remedies which are better than those proven to work by modern science.

And like I said previously, ALL nature is "chemical". And indeed by that token all "artificial" products are also, ultimately "natural".

For a particularly beautiful example of this please check out this partial list of the chemical recipe for strawberries:

https://tribalscientist.wordpress.co...-a-strawberry/
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Old 20-06-2015, 13:02   #30
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Re: How white is too white?

Ryban,
Having recently had my first spot of cancer successfully removed from my own nose, I used a bit of my surgeon's time to become educated. First, buy sunscreen by the case, and apply about every one to two hours (80 minutes is the published medical recommendation), and more often if you are sweating. So leave sunscreen laying conspicuously around your boat and make application a habit. There is no such thing as waterproof sunscreen, and the relative benefit of higher SPF ratings become asymptotic at 30. So there is no need to spend more for higher SPF, the advertisements lie. Use sunscreen very liberally...... do not under-apply. Large hats and clothes are also recommended, and canvas or pilothouse is a necessity if you want to most significantly minimize risk. This is another critical piece of survival strategy. Educate your mates and all of our cruising friends. Peace!
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