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Old 21-09-2012, 14:28   #46
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Re: How Should A Country Attract Yachtsmen?

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post

<snip>

2) Charts - free would be nice!, or at least easily accessible / cheap - digital online or on paper.

<snip>
Charts and other data, online, vector. But a former communist country will worry that this will be a threat to National Security...

Brilliant Point David...
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Old 21-09-2012, 14:39   #47
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I don't think the cost of anything is particularly relevant, the market will set that. If one looks at successful med countries, say like France, Italy and Croatia.

1. Consistent and minimal officialdom. Yachties are tourists treat them like that

2. Good marinas , with shoreside attractions., cost is not a primarily factor for short stay charters or visitors. ( you don't want liveaboards) Most leisure sailors want to be ashore in a bar/restaurant on their holidays, not swinging on a dodgy anchor . This worked spectacularly well in Croatia with the government ACI marinas and in France in the 70s/80s when the local government set out to build a string of marinas no more then 30km apart.

Stimulate the marina development with tax breaks etc or just build them with local or central government funds ( like France and Croatia) to kick start the industry

3. a support infrastructure, travel lifts etc, the damm things break down, again tax breaks, investment support for marine industries , it will be difficult to get business of the ground so government help and support are key.

4. Close together destinations, most people don't want to spend days getting places.

5. Encourage the charter industry, tax breaks, capital depreciation schemes, direct grant aid to buy boats etc. This is key to the numbers game. Again Croatia and turkey did A good job, when the long term cruisers start avoiding the place because of the flotillas, they'll have done the job properly

6. The long term cruisers should be ignored, they are statistically tiny in number. Charter and owner resident boats ( ie those that fly in from Europe for two to three holidays a year) are the key. These people are paying considerable sums on their holiday. , they tend not to be too price sensitive.

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Old 21-09-2012, 17:28   #48
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Re: How Should A Country Attract Yachtsmen?

My Best experience so far as a cruiser has been in Grenada in the Eastern Caribbean.
I purchased my YOT there from the previous owner. There was a cruising permit for the vessel in the ships papers. Where I'm from the a cruising permit is attached to the owner and the vessel, if one changes a new permit is required. When I went to customs to get a new cruising permit, much to my surprise, I was told I didn't need one as it applied to the vessel only. They told me as long as the vessel stayed in Grenadian waters the vessel was fine the permit was unlimited.(That may have changed now because of the world economic down turn) I know that this caused a bit of an issue for Moorings when they were based in Grenada, as most charters headed North to the Grenadines.
Another plus for Grenada at the time (2003) was that any vessel in transit was not subject to duty on chandlery purchases, as long as the vessel registered with customs. All the chandleries had the forms and submitted them on my behalf.
When I sailed out of Grenada in 2004, I was told the the cruisers injected more into the local economy than the cruise ships. Mind you Grenada now has a dedicated cruise ship berth facility. So those number may not be accurate now...but I hope they are. Grenada had great services for the cruiser and great skillsets when I was last there, I only hope they have kept the same model.

Crikey 8 years since I was there, love the place,.....time to go back.
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Old 21-09-2012, 17:32   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caribsailors
My Best experience so far as a cruiser has been in Grenada in the Eastern Caribbean.
I purchased my YOT there from the previous owner. There was a cruising permit for the vessel in the ships papers. Where I'm from the a cruising permit is attached to the owner and the vessel, if one changes a new permit is required. When I went to customs to get a new cruising permit, much to my surprise, I was told I didn't need on as it applied to the vessel only. They told me as long as the vessel stayed in Grenadian waters the vessel was fine the permit was unlimited.(That may have changed now because of the world economic down turn) I know that this caused a bit of an issue for Moorings when they were based in Grenada, as most charters headed North to the Grenadines.
Another plus for Grenada at the time (2003) was that any vessel in transit was not subject to duty on chandlery purchases, as long as the vessel registered with customs. All the chandleries had the forms and submitted them on my behalf.
When I sail out of Grenada in 2004, I was told the the cruisers injected more into the local economy than the cruise ships. Mind you Grenada now has a dedicated cruise ship berth facility. So those number may not be accurate.

Crikey 8 years since I was there, love the place,.....time to go back.
This stuff is all useful to long term cruisers, that's fine but it's not much use as a way of building a yachting tourism product. Forget the duty free stuff , build marinas, encourage charters and resident boats. That's where the numbers are and it's a numbers game
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Old 21-09-2012, 17:58   #50
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Re: How Should A Country Attract Yachtsmen?

Stuff for safe navigation: On top of points about charts and weather info and lights - Preferably good 3g signals along the coast. If any history of mines - get them cleared and publicise you've done it (see Albania)

Personal and boat security: yes tackle real piracy. Yes discourage boat/deck theft. But recognise that this is very difficult as visitors eg to Spain who've lost dinghies will know. So it's a general issue about crime, not a yacht specific one. Boaties don't get corralled into resorts and protected (as in eg Kenya or the Maldives) so the campaign needs to be broader than that required for shore based tourism. s the country safe enough for women to walk around on their own (recognising there are many places in London I wouldn't do so after dark)? If not, what are they doing about it?

Officialdom and corruption: echo everything that has been said. Morocco has done very well on both these fronts with very clear anti-corruption messages from the top such that even offering a sweating port policeman a glass of water was frowned upon.

Chandlery etc: yes support the sector specific industries and help to retool the shipping facilities (as at La Ciotat in southern France) through a number of training, economic development initiatives. Also support the import of stuff from elsewhere without ludicrous taxes etc (are you listening UK?), and through an efficient courier/mail system. Where would be the equivalent of France's Port St Louis - for boats unable or unwilling to risk the Danube but wanting to come there from elsewhere via land transit?

Taxation/import etc: as everyone has said be welcoming. Make yourselves an additionally adventurous VAT alternative for a trip. Tax breaks for charter companies and so on. (Turkey did this for a while).

Pollution: in addition to the challenges of the Black Sea, think now about waste water management from yachts, especially black water. As noted, the real money is in charter. What facilities will you offer for pumpouts, support for good management of black and grey waste etc. Do not get into the 'problems of success' Turkey is currently trying to manage.

Promotion and marketing: start hosting some big events (which may be with small boats!). This helps with the levelling, the country profile overall etc. I also like the idea of a Black Sea rally and I think at least one was run by Cruising Association members a while back.

Probably too late for the talk but let us know the feedback.
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Old 21-09-2012, 19:04   #51
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New Zealand has a good formula.
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Old 22-09-2012, 03:16   #52
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Re: How Should A Country Attract Yachtsmen?

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This stuff is all useful to long term cruisers, that's fine but it's not much use as a way of building a yachting tourism product. Forget the duty free stuff , build marinas, encourage charters and resident boats. That's where the numbers are and it's a numbers game
I understand where you are coming from - but IMO it is not an either / or scenario. Both is better.

Targetting the Cruising Crowd will never make a country rich from the Tourist Dollar, but as already said - they are the marine equivalent of the backpacker crowd which does have a track record of opening up places towards mass tourism (plusses and minuses to that of course!). The plus with them is that very cheap and easy to facilitate - mostly with the stroke of a pen rather than squillion dollar infrastructue projects (I have nothing against them - they just take time and money).

Certainly I agree that the Charter Market would be a good tool to use - make the deal good enough for someone like Sunsail and they will come. It's just a question of how much it costs the country (by lost revenue and / or from direct subsidy). Short term cost for longterm benefit (well, hopefully! - that's the freemarket gamble!).

In practice probably do best simply by getting a low cost carrier into the region (Ryanair?!) - build them a beachside airport, with a sweetheart deal........straight into the Costa del Black Sea .
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Old 25-09-2012, 19:08   #53
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Re: How Should A Country Attract Yachtsmen?

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1) Coming back to the theme of ease of access - how about a "Black Sea Rally" (ARC style) - Say, with 2 start / pick up points. Greece (Cyprus?) then onto Turkey and through to the mystery country! The idea being to get folks through the Bosphorous en-masse and with local knowledge.......and possibly a rally coming back .......once folks start to learn that it is doable the Rally becomes less important (although probably still a money spinner). Some official sanction to the Rally would be very useful (ease of entry?)
From the point of view of getting locals accustomed to having foreign yachts in the country this is an ideal start. Also, the safety of being in a flotilla precludes many of the previous concerns about crime, and the simplicity of handling one batch of paperwork for the officials has to be a bonus.

Once this has been done for two or three years they could start to see for themselves what needs to be done to allow individual cruisers to enter, and what infrastructure is really required. And they will also have some idea of the administrative costs.

Hell, I'd do it. The Black Sea is a fascinating area.

Rob
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Old 25-09-2012, 19:17   #54
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Re: How Should A Country Attract Yachtsmen?

I see a lot of stuff here about providing infrastructure without a thought to where the money comes from. After all, if a former Eastern Bloc country is about to open its borders to outside yachties, aren't they doing it for the money?

How about this: Government policy that allows joint ventures with foreign nationals on infrastructure projects with locals providing the "sweat equity." Joe Sailor buys some waterfront land in the name of a company and owns 50% while Ivan Ocean and his mates build a boatyard/marina/restaurant and operate it, and own the other half.

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Old 25-09-2012, 19:26   #55
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Re: How Should A Country Attract Yachtsmen?

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I see a lot of stuff here about providing infrastructure without a thought to where the money comes from. After all, if a former Eastern Bloc country is about to open its borders to outside yachties, aren't they doing it for the money?

How about this: Government policy that allows joint ventures with foreign nationals on infrastructure projects with locals providing the "sweat equity." Joe Sailor buys some waterfront land in the name of a company and owns 50% while Ivan Ocean and his mates build a boatyard/marina/restaurant and operate it, and own the other half.

Rob
seems like the russians are the only people with serious money these days in the eastern med,judging by the amount of russian owned super yachts!
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Old 25-09-2012, 19:27   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haiqu
I see a lot of stuff here about providing infrastructure without a thought to where the money comes from. After all, if a former Eastern Bloc country is about to open its borders to outside yachties, aren't they doing it for the money?

How about this: Government policy that allows joint ventures with foreign nationals on infrastructure projects with locals providing the "sweat equity." Joe Sailor buys some waterfront land in the name of a company and owns 50% while Ivan Ocean and his mates build a boatyard/marina/restaurant and operate it, and own the other half.

Rob
France has shown that public marine infrastructure is the best way. IMHO the foreshore is too important for pure private development. Far too many places destroyed by uncontrolled or over zealous development. Build them from the public purse but run them privately

Dave
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