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Old 22-01-2016, 11:51   #31
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

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Originally Posted by roland stockham View Post
That looks like an old wooden pilot cutter, quite possible it is about the same age as the crew so some mechanical issues could be understandable (great both though). However it does take a bit to get such comments out of a Cornish fisherman, they are true pro's, expect the amateurs to be at least a little incompetent and usually just smile.
In this part of the world (North Wales) and Cornwall too probably, the fishermen call yachtsmen WAFIs.

Wind Assisted F***ing Idiots.

It is normally an unwarranted insult but in this case I am not so sure. Like everything else in life we can all have a run of bad luck but calling for help 7 times starts to stretch credulity whatever the reason. If you buy a boat of that age without a survey then you need to be pretty competent about boats and it doesn't sound as if these guys are. They should now get a professional survey done before they set out again.

As others have pointed out the rescue service in the UK and Ireland is mainly provided by the RNLI which is voluntarily funded, An awful lot of people have put time and effort into raising the ~20,000 this has probably cost so far and a lot of volunteers have dropped everything to go out to rescue these guys, probably loosing wages and their attitude is all just a bit too casual. 71 is not so old that you can give up on common sense. It doesn't matter whether they need rescuing, if they ask for it, the call will be answered.
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Old 22-01-2016, 13:26   #32
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

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Originally Posted by AnglaisInHull View Post
A friend sent this link - it strikes me that the story has some interesting lessons on seamanship.

After many rescue calls, American sailors in Cornwall called 'incompetent' - Home | As It Happens | CBC Radio
These guys have a death wish and don't care if they take others with them.
No charge for sea rescue in the UK, perhaps there should be like in the US.
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Old 22-01-2016, 14:32   #33
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

[QUOTE=Lizzy Belle;2023126]First of all - the 'pay for rescue' comments are plain stupid. Rescue services shouldn't be for those who can afford it, or for those "who deserve it" -- period. If you think otherwise, please think about that for a minute and let us all know who gets to decide who 'deserves' rescuing, and based on what criteria we let others sink or drown.

Lizzy Belle - I don't think (unless I missed it) anyone was suggesting "If they can't pay for it, don't rescue them" - quite the contrary, actually.
But the points made above about the cost and risk of rescue SHOULD be a concern. First responders go when called, no questions asked, and that's how it should be. But if these two are out there in risky or un-wise conditions with the attitude of "Oh, we can always call for a rescue", then I have a problem with that, and at the very least they should be made to pay the costs of rescues number 3-7.
It could be ME on a real, live sinking boat that DOESN'T get rescued in time because the Coasties were busy with two 71 year old children again. I don't think that's right.
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Old 22-01-2016, 14:45   #34
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

Im on the fence with this. Ive listened to the interview and it sounds to me like a media beef up. The only thing id question is whether the vessel is sea worthy enough to head to sea?

They havnt been rescued seven times. They have 'called' seven times , but what do they mean by 'called'? Called for what? Advice? Weather?

My suspicion is they have gone to sea with an unseaworthy boat with possibly not fully eqipped as it should be. Possibly not even a VHF i think i heard. But the 'incompetence' allegation seems to be media exageration.
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Old 22-01-2016, 16:51   #35
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

[QUOTE=Lizzy Belle;2023126]First of all - the 'pay for rescue' comments are plain stupid. Rescue services shouldn't be for those who can afford it, or for those "who deserve it" -- period. If you think otherwise, please think about that for a minute and let us all know who gets to decide who 'deserves' rescuing, and based on what criteria we let others sink or drown. END

I don't believe so !! Rather like the USCG model. They come out to save lives and refer you to a towing company for your vessel.
You pay a subscription to SeaTow or BoatUS and if they cannot come out the Coast Guard will on their behalf for no charge.
There's many instances when lives have been rescued and vessels left to the salvage companies.
What is wrong with that? If yachtsman cannot act responsibly they shouldn't own a boat.
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Old 22-01-2016, 17:14   #36
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pirate Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

[QUOTE=adlib2;2024373]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
First of all - the 'pay for rescue' comments are plain stupid. Rescue services shouldn't be for those who can afford it, or for those "who deserve it" -- period. If you think otherwise, please think about that for a minute and let us all know who gets to decide who 'deserves' rescuing, and based on what criteria we let others sink or drown. END

I don't believe so !! Rather like the USCG model. They come out to save lives and refer you to a towing company for your vessel.
You pay a subscription to SeaTow or BoatUS and if they cannot come out the Coast Guard will on their behalf for no charge.
There's many instances when lives have been rescued and vessels left to the salvage companies.
What is wrong with that? If yachtsman cannot act responsibly they shouldn't own a boat.
Two things stand out with this post..
You are not an Islander and.. you do not value or appreciate Institutions..
The RNLI is a 90% volunteer Rescue Service born in 1824 and to be frank a Nations pride.. we buy the buttons and pennants gladly and give what we wish or can.. many of us have friends or relatives who crew and every 'locals' house just about turns on their VHF when the Maroon goes..
Your welcome to TowBoatUS..
We'll stick with what we have..


The Royal National Lifeboat Institution (RNLI) is the largest charity that saves lives at sea around the coasts of the UK, Ireland, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man as well as on some inland waterways. There are numerous other lifeboat services operating in the same area.

Founded in 1824 as the National Institution for the Preservation of Life from Shipwreck, the RNLI was granted Royal Charter in 1860 and is a charity in the UK and Republic of Ireland. Queen Elizabeth II is Patron. The RNLI is principally funded by legacies and donations with most lifeboat crew members being unpaid volunteers.

The RNLI has 236 lifeboat stations and operates 444 lifeboats. Crews rescued on average 23 people a day in 2013. RNLI Lifeguards operate on more than 200 beaches. They are paid by local authorities, while the RNLI provides equipment and training. The Institution operates Flood Rescue Teams (FRT) nationally and internationally (iFRT), the latter prepared to travel to emergencies overseas at short notice.

Considerable effort is put into training and education by the Institution, particularly for young people; more than 6,000 children a week are spoken to by education volunteers about sea and beach safety, and over 800 children a week receive training.

The Institution has saved 140,000 lives since its foundation, at a cost of more than 600 lives lost in service.
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Old 22-01-2016, 17:44   #37
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

QUOTE: Two things stand out with this post..
You are not an Islander and.. you do not value or appreciate Institutions..
The RNLI is a 90% volunteer Rescue Service born in 1864 and to be frank a Nations pride.. we buy the buttons and pennants gladly and give what we wish or can.. many of us have friends or relatives who crew and every 'locals' house just about turns on their VHF when the Maroon goes..

I am an Islander actually, from this 'Sceptred Isle set in a Silver Sea'
And I agree 100% with your patriotic Post, would have written the same if I had your knowledge.
But you're not Dealing with Brits or even Europeans, but with a couple of old Americans that are taking advantage of you institutions and regard for those in peril on the sea.
If they ever were in Peril. Which I doubt and wonder if they would have called for assistance realizing they would have to pay for the service.
Australia got fed up with incompetent freeloaders when I lived there and seriously discussed charges for service.
Americans are used to paying, they know the score in NA, and the fact they did nothing to ensure their own survival can only be due to their selfishness and cavalier attitude.
I'm not suggesting you scrap the RNLI and adopt the NA pay as you go, but I believe you owe some respect to your lifesaving crews.
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Old 22-01-2016, 20:08   #38
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

Nice satire. Or do you really not get it?
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Old 22-01-2016, 21:39   #39
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

Part of the media ramping up this story was putting American in the title. For some it seems.


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Old 24-01-2016, 16:00   #40
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pirate Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

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QUOTE: but I believe you owe some respect to your lifesaving crews.
Was not aware I had shown any disrespect.. as I said friends are volunteers and maybe you should understand the psychology that drives them.. and.. I believe most of Oz's rescue services are small local volunteer set-ups.. at least they were down the W and along the S coast.. 0800-1800.. 2100 at w/ends.
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Old 24-01-2016, 17:11   #41
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

I hope they keep trying and make it.
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Old 24-01-2016, 18:38   #42
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

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Part of the media ramping up this story was putting American in the title. For some it seems.


Posted from my buggy iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum app
Ignore that - it's a Canadian thing - we can't help ourselves.
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Old 24-01-2016, 19:03   #43
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

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Was not aware I had shown any disrespect.. as I said friends are volunteers and maybe you should understand the psychology that drives them.. and.. I believe most of Oz's rescue services are small local volunteer set-ups.. at least they were down the W and along the S coast.. 0800-1800.. 2100 at w/ends.
Thats correct Boatman, for the East coast as well. The police are responsible for further out, up to the 200 miles where facilities enable and then the Navy and customs take over.
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Old 24-01-2016, 20:23   #44
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

More power to these guys.

If you can't show respect for your elders try a little for some fellow sailors. If what they are doing scares ya then you are in not alone. Lots of folks share your fears.

Boatie had a world of issues bringing his boat home. I for one thought him determined. Not incompetent.

If Poseidon takes these guys, I'll tilt a glass to 'em and maybe follow their lead someday.
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Old 24-01-2016, 22:32   #45
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

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Was not aware I had shown any disrespect.. as I said friends are volunteers and maybe you should understand the psychology that drives them.. and.. I believe most of Oz's rescue services are small local volunteer set-ups.. at least they were down the W and along the S coast.. 0800-1800.. 2100 at w/ends.

Seven answered calls for assistance from the same boat is too much to expect from any volunteer crew.
We had a Brit requesting assistance from the Grands Banks, he was towed and his vessel inspected and his experience reviewed by Canadian authorities and found wanting. He was stopped attempting to return to sea and a lock placed on his vessel.
We don't charge in Canada either, usually rescues are effected by the RCN at sea and Coast Guard on the Great Lakes; although, there is a small representation from SeaTow.
In Australia it was Royal Australian Navy that was complaining about the cost and time for air sea rescue services usually to underfunded and under-equipped cruising foreigners.
I would never malign the RNLI and what it stands for, but you must agree it was formed long before pleasure boating became popular and spawned a raft of incompetent sailors. I'm saying these un-worthies should pay for their assistance, at least after the first rescue.
I'm not turned on by the Jolly Boyo's syndrome one bit. They are a bloody menace and should be treated as such.
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