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Old 10-02-2016, 02:02   #151
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

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Originally Posted by CaptChris376 View Post
These guys are getting slaughtered by the media. No doubt a good distraction from the very real issues there at home and to the East.
And rightly so. They're costing the tax payers / a charity money going off on a little jaunt in their sailboat. Sailing is still seen as snobby in many parts of the world and with talk of more hard financial times ahead, why should others have to foot the bill for this?

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Transiting unfamiliar waters in an unfamiliar boat you are bound to have problems. I have faith that they will make it to their trade wind passage eventually.
Yes, but requiring 9 call outs? That's beyond "problems" and is poor seamanship.

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If you are ever in need in US waters, regardless of your attitude, the United States Coast Guard will help and won't bitch about how much it costs, such BS!
So if we were sailing down the US East Coast and needed CG assistance multiple times, they wouldn't think twice about inspecting the vessel and impounding it until correct maintenance was performed? I have the greatest respect for the USCG, but I highly doubt they would be happy about 9 call outs to a single boat.

n
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Old 10-02-2016, 05:37   #152
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pirate Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

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Originally Posted by ausnp84 View Post
And rightly so. They're costing the tax payers / a charity money going off on a little jaunt in their sailboat. Sailing is still seen as snobby in many parts of the world and with talk of more hard financial times ahead, why should others have to foot the bill for this?



Yes, but requiring 9 call outs? That's beyond "problems" and is poor seamanship.



So if we were sailing down the US East Coast and needed CG assistance multiple times, they wouldn't think twice about inspecting the vessel and impounding it until correct maintenance was performed? I have the greatest respect for the USCG, but I highly doubt they would be happy about 9 call outs to a single boat.

n
From personal experience 'No they will not'..
They are unlikely to come out once.. unless its a Mayday.
Anything else results in silence on CH16 and after a while a couple of RIB's show up and give you a quote for the tow.. if your not able to pay.. they go away..
In my case I was lucky.. the second guy had a new kid on his first days training for the job.. it was flat calm, no wind and he could see the tide sweeping we toward the Cape would soon have me in water shallow enough to anchor.. decided to do a training tow back into Taylors Creek.
In the end the experience served me well as I am used to the swift response's from the Rescue Services in the UK.. it jerked me back to the real world where Rescue is not something that can be taken for granted... Physician heal thyself..
Europeans are generally unaware that unlike back home the USA sells everything it can.. even rescue in non lethal situations..
But when you qualify for the Freebie they're good...

As for all the folks including Hoofsmit... maybe dog walking on the Fells should be banned, or how about Orienteering..
Of the top of my head I can think of at least 30 land based activities where the Rescue Services are very regularly called out..
How about the days of long hours the RNLI and others put in during the flooding.. dya think that was financially compensated for by the Government..?
Hoofsmit... you may be a lover of Disney World but myself... I'll stick with the UK.. A person in Distress has no colour, creed or politic's..
merely everyman..
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Old 10-02-2016, 12:42   #153
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

Boati
I always respect your views, they tend to be balanced,.
you are correct regarding the other services available in other leisure pursuits but I have never met any one that has been pulled off the moors 9 times!
I am still trying to figure out the Disney reference? Could you explain?
I do not judge by creed or colour or theme park geography!
I now live in the Caribbean and if I was that way inclined I would not be living here, to me every man has the same right to test his resilience but when that is to the detriment of others I loose respect for them

My comments regarding ' these two adventurers' come from growing up in the local vicinity and knowing the RNLI guys who volunteer there time, they down tools when the maroon goes off and along with the worry their families have when they are on a shout, I find the comments of some on here that consider these services should just 'bail them out' because they have a boat and are able to do what ever they see fit - demeaning to this charity and all those who give so much to it

the Cornish,as with most tight communities in adverse situations pull together , they don't need 'some Yank' telling them to go spend their time helping another Yank just because he has a yacht ! And is incapable of knowing what his abilities as a sailor are.

This is an extract from a local reporter after previous storms

Comments (0) A Cornish harbour stands almost empty thanks to a community salvage effort following Wednesday’s brutal storm.The inner harbour at Porthleven, near Helston in West Cornwall, was exposed to the full force of the storm surge after large wooden beams at its entrance sapped.Six boats sank under the pressure, sparking villagers into desperate action to protect what they could. Some were hauled up the slipway in the immediate aftermath with the salvage operation resuming this morning.Harbourmaster Phil Ward said they had managed to crane nine boats, from 18ft- 33ft, from the water thanks to the help of villagers.“We have had to clear the harbour before the next storm comes in,” Mr Ward said. “All the villagers, local farmers, crane drivers, everybody has pulled together and been brilliant. We have got four more to go and then I’ll be happy.”Mr Ward, who has been the harbourmaster for the last 12 years, said boats were now dotted around the village.Two were completely lost, while smaller tenders were washed out to sea, although many have been salvaged with minimal damage.“We have been quite lucky so far with structural damage,” Mr Ward added. “There’s a bit of damage to the inner harbour but nothing major. We are just now waiting to see what Saturday will bring.”

I grew up in a coastal area where I and most of my friends respected the risk of being on the water and held the non seaman like attitudes of guys like these to be beyond contempt.

Sorry for the long post but I think my views are clear, whether you agree or not is not my concern, but it helps me vent my frustration




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Old 10-02-2016, 13:09   #154
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

If they do set off again I wonder if Biscay will be ' so charitable' ?



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Old 10-02-2016, 13:21   #155
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

A little history.

Back when I first joined the Army, there was a program called MAST, I have no idea what it was short for, but it was US Army Medivac helicopters and crews used for civilian emergencies. You had a bad wreck on I-16? Real soon an Army UH-1 would show up and transport you to the Hospital, no charge, US Army is supported by taxpayers.
Well it didn't take long for Civilian operators to get involved as I guess Emergency medical transport is as very lucrative field, and face it, MAST was only available near Army bases.
Well very soon MAST has to be shut down, you can't make money when the Government will do it for free.
If the CG started towing boats, do you think Seatow and Boat US would just sit back and watch?


Found it, ain't Google wonderful

MAST stands for Military Assistance to Safety & Traffic (US Army MEDEVAC civilian assistance)
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Old 10-02-2016, 13:33   #156
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

I think Hoofsmit has a valid point here. One has only so much energy. People do live in tight-knit communities. Why on earth should they after such a trying event as their harbour being rendered unsafe by the weather, why should they put effort into a couple of Yanks, whether or not they're perceived as "rich", Yanks who do not seem to do their homework.

Now, if the guys were down at the boat, working on it, getting it shipshape, it might be a different story. Somebody might help them source the timber for the cabinets, for instance, and I think that is likely. But if the adventurers are expecting to be bailed out, that is the wrong attitude for going to sea, where the fix it yourself mindset is what'll eventually bring you safe to shore. The jury rig and go slow, etc. etc.

I also agree that lending a hand is gratifying, work you can feel good about. But you can squander your efforts and time where it will be ineffectual, unless you are selective about where and how you apply your energy. It is distasteful to be taken advantage of.

i'm sorry they're being denigrated by the media. It must make it harder. I think i'd grow out my beard, and otherwise change my appearance.

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Old 10-02-2016, 13:43   #157
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

I can see the land world using this as a reason to insist on a government approved inspector deeming your boat safe for the appropriate costs and time.
Just a thought
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Old 10-02-2016, 13:53   #158
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

I saw a televised interview with these guys. One of them, when asked if they'd not been rescued "eight or nine times", almost proudly replied: "we've called the Coast Guard 27 times".

Imbeciles. How dare they?

I've got no more time for these 71-year olds, and I'm a lot older than that!

Bill
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Old 10-02-2016, 13:55   #159
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

One look at the boat, and I doubt many would think them rich, fools maybe, but not rich fools
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Old 10-02-2016, 14:06   #160
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pirate Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofsmit View Post
Boati
I always respect your views, they tend to be balanced,.
you are correct regarding the other services available in other leisure pursuits but I have never met any one that has been pulled off the moors 9 times!
I am still trying to figure out the Disney reference? Could you explain?
I do not judge by creed or colour or theme park geography!
I now live in the Caribbean and if I was that way inclined I would not be living here, to me every man has the same right to test his resilience but when that is to the detriment of others I loose respect for them

My comments regarding ' these two adventurers' come from growing up in the local vicinity and knowing the RNLI guys who volunteer there time, they down tools when the maroon goes off and along with the worry their families have when they are on a shout, I find the comments of some on here that consider these services should just 'bail them out' because they have a boat and are able to do what ever they see fit - demeaning to this charity and all those who give so much to it
the Cornish,as with most tight communities in adverse situations pull together , they don't need 'some Yank' telling them to go spend their time helping another Yank just because he has a yacht ! And is incapable of knowing what his abilities as a sailor are.

This is an extract from a local reporter after previous storms

Comments (0) A Cornish harbour stands almost empty thanks to a community salvage effort following Wednesday’s brutal storm.The inner harbour at Porthleven, near Helston in West Cornwall, was exposed to the full force of the storm surge after large wooden beams at its entrance sapped.Six boats sank under the pressure, sparking villagers into desperate action to protect what they could. Some were hauled up the slipway in the immediate aftermath with the salvage operation resuming this morning.Harbourmaster Phil Ward said they had managed to crane nine boats, from 18ft- 33ft, from the water thanks to the help of villagers.“We have had to clear the harbour before the next storm comes in,” Mr Ward said. “All the villagers, local farmers, crane drivers, everybody has pulled together and been brilliant. We have got four more to go and then I’ll be happy.”Mr Ward, who has been the harbourmaster for the last 12 years, said boats were now dotted around the village.Two were completely lost, while smaller tenders were washed out to sea, although many have been salvaged with minimal damage.“We have been quite lucky so far with structural damage,” Mr Ward added. “There’s a bit of damage to the inner harbour but nothing major. We are just now waiting to see what Saturday will bring.”

I grew up in a coastal area where I and most of my friends respected the risk of being on the water and held the non seaman like attitudes of guys like these to be beyond contempt.

Sorry for the long post but I think my views are clear, whether you agree or not is not my concern, but it helps me vent my frustration




Sent from my iPad.......i apologise for the auto corrects !!!

And I worked and drank with the guys in Salcombe who towed me in after a ramming.. spent 2 years there.. worked on Egremont while repairing my boat, where a few of the lifeboat crew worked as dinghy instructors.. and the butchers etc..
Respect to the lads..
Knew a few of the lads in Poole as well when I worked at the LYS yard there..
But I also know there's a strong adrenalin factor involved with the Lifeboat crew.. I'd say in honesty it rivals the reason for being there... in a good way..
I understand what your saying Hoofsmit but for me it would be the thin edge of the wedge...
3 strikes and your out..??
Bill once you've got to start billing others..
Only bill foreigners...??
Are we not losing sight of the fact the RNLI is a Charity..
Come hell or high water we'll get you..!!
Changes to "Sir.. come hell or high water we'll come and get you... now could I have your...
Credit Card number
Name
Address
Position..."
But.. that's just me..
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Old 10-02-2016, 16:28   #161
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

Boatie

I totally agree with the 'thin edge of the wedge' forcing a possible charging structure, which I would never want to see for a life saving service
I think that is very much my point, as Ann says, there are only so many times you can smack someone in the face and say your sorry.
What ever you think about the media, they can sway opinion, and the attitude of " getting others to pay for your fun" or being rescued without humility, may well stop the public putting their hands in their pockets to keep this a free service for those that need it through no fault of their own.


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Old 10-02-2016, 16:45   #162
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pirate Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

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Originally Posted by Hoofsmit View Post
Boatie

I totally agree with the 'thin edge of the wedge' forcing a possible charging structure, which I would never want to see for a life saving service
I think that is very much my point, as Ann says, there are only so many times you can smack someone in the face and say your sorry.
What ever you think about the media, they can sway opinion, and the attitude of " getting others to pay for your fun" or being rescued without humility, may well stop the public putting their hands in their pockets to keep this a free service for those that need it through no fault of their own.


Sent from my iPad.......i apologise for the auto corrects !!!
I don't know mate..
Us Brits are funny that way as you well know.. the RNLI holds a special place.. its actions are reported every day.. name one other charity where you actually SEE the fruits of your donations.. apart from a bunch of tents from a stock shot..
They get the best that money can buy..
its a matter of quiet national pride..
In the donors who give the money..
and the men who offer their lives.. For no return..
But that's just me..

I'll board a boat in a storm.. great fun..
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Old 10-02-2016, 17:03   #163
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pirate Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

What gets me is this emotive 'Costing' that pops up every time a rescue happens..
In this case the story varies between 7 and 9 times.. at a cost of £20000 a pop..
How come..??
From my understanding they were towed into Hayle by a fishing boat.. an oil rig boat came out to them with a battery.. so that's £40K saved..
Also.. the RNLI boat in Salcombe for example has a full time skipper, 1st mate and engineer.. the rest are a surplus of volunteers and its a case of 1st there after the maroon crews..
So.. all its costs is the fuel.. and I'm sure for example it did not cost them 20K in fuel to come out to Start Point and tow me back to Salcombe..
Oh.. and it was after most shops and offices were closed..
Consideration in all things..
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Old 10-02-2016, 18:00   #164
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

Boatman is right. We get too emotional over something and try to throw the baby out with the bath water. Fretting about cost per rescue begets keeping track of cost. Keeping track of cost begets managing costs. Managing costs begets deciding who to rescue and how much they should pay. Deciding who is worthy and who can pay begets crew fearing to call for help. Or worse someone is forced into the position to decide who is worthy and who is not. Then fewer rescues raises the cost of each rescue. Nothing is saved in reality and more sailors die. It's a vicious cycle and we should resist the temptation to mess with the excellent SAR systems we have. They are imperfect but better than the alternatives.
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Old 10-02-2016, 21:06   #165
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Re: How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

This guy bought what was probably a fairly inexpensive boat in Norway and is sailing it home because a delivery would have cost a fortune compared to the boat itself. I don't see how anyone can consider that "going off on a little jaunt in their sailboat"

They would not have needed the Coast Guard 9 times. Media inflation, they picked up on this and realized they could turn it into a dog and pony show like they always do. Anything to distract from the much more important problems in the world.

According to the captain the only time they may have truly needed a "rescue" was when they were experiencing problems during 14 foot seas in the North Sea.


One so called "rescue call" was actually a crew form an oil rig that volunteered to assist them with a dead engine battery without them having asked for it.


A tow into port because of a malfunctioning engine happens to nearly every mariner at some point.

My understanding is that several calls were groundings which if no life was in danger, the USCG probably would have told them to call a Tow Boat(yes at their expense). Or more likely a fellow mariner would have assisted. Regardless of the past, If there was an imminent threat to life then you can bet that the United States Coast Guard would have rescued them.


Leaving a burning candle on a boat is absolutely inexcusable and I believe was the fault of the inexperienced first mate probably without the owners knowledge.

Clearly they are not proficient sailors/seamen but I doubt they deserve the treatment they are getting.
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