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Old 27-06-2015, 05:31   #76
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
..............
... waves, whether man made or from nature, are part of shoreside living.

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This has always been my expectation. My post starting this thread two days ago was the result of me passing within abbout 100' of a small boat tied to a cement bulkhead with no fenders. The owner of the small boat was frantically reaching for his fenders while screaming at me that we were in a no wake zone. I slowed immediately, but too late to prevent my meager 8" wake from rocking his boat against the cement.

I often see people, usually with small "run-abouts" set against a dock without accounting for possible wake or waves. They end up with scratches or rub rails peeled away when a simple fender would eliminate the concern.

As Jim states above, "waves are a part of shoreside living" and also to be expected while underway. I accept slowing to allow an overtaking boat to pass with less wake, but most often I will ask them to maintain their speed and leave it to me to maneuver across their wake.

It has always surprised me to hear of people that spend time on boats and expect not to be rocked about by waves!

I also recognize the other extreme. I've seen fishermen in small boats swamped and tossed overboard by a large motoryacht speeding through a narrow inlet. I also remember being at the helm of a 110' vessel outbound at the Cheasapeake Bay Bridge & Tunnel when the morning horizon across the shallower water to the west was covered by the huge scalloped wake of a container ship. I turned the 110' boat into the wake that sprayed over our deck and I watched as the wake sprayed across the cars on the road bed approaching the tunnel.
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Old 27-06-2015, 06:30   #77
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

Hudson Force, why would you be proud of a wake? Wakes are larger for power boats as a result of inefficient hull shape. Sailboats leave smaller wakes as a sign of their more efficient design. A wake is wasted energy whether from diesel or wind and is nothing to be proud of.

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Old 27-06-2015, 06:51   #78
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

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Hudson Force, why would you be proud of a wake? ..............
Brian, That comment was meant to be humorous. No problem though,- I'm accustomed to my quips falling flat!
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Old 27-06-2015, 07:10   #79
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

No problem, Hudson Force! I'll give you a nice grin for it! :-)

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Old 27-06-2015, 07:17   #80
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

“No wake” can be defined as a vessel traveling at or below idle speed, or at such speed that the boat or its wake is not sufficient to cause possible injury or damage to other persons, boats, or property.

No Wake" could also mean you must operate at the minimum speed that allows you to maintain steering and make headway.*

* In Minnesota & Wisconsin, for instance, “Slow no-wake” speed means the slowest possible speed to maintain steerage, but no greater than 5 mph.
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Old 27-06-2015, 07:35   #81
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

It's about their presence, not their agality.
The manatee migration (N to South in fall, & S to North in spring) season officially begins on November 15 and runs through March 31, the period during which watercraft speed restrictions take effect on canals, rivers and the Intracoastal Waterway.

http://www.flmapr.com/pdf/website.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg View Post
Well, if the Manatee Zone signage throughout Florida is to be believed, some manatees are more 'agile' than others... Depends a lot on the season, as well, the manatees in this area apparently start getting a bit more sluggish in the beginning of October:



On the other hand, these guys practically go into hibernation, and are barely capable of taking evasive action, come November 15...



These manatees apparently only come out on Weekends & Holidays... However, being the Party Animals they are, they can handle a 15" wake as their "Maximum Minimum"...



Some manatees apparently keep pretty regular hours, and turn in early for the evening... Being Florida residents, perhaps they head off for an Early Bird Buffet after 1900?



But the nightime speed restriction is my favorite Stupid Manatee Regulation... Yeah, that 10 mph speed reduction at night is gonna make a BIG difference, alright...



If one is searching for the finest examples of Ultimate Stupidity and Abitrary Regulation, one doesn't have to look any further than those that populate Florida's waters re Manatee Zones...

Most of which require a pair of binoculars to be read from any distance, I might add...

;-)
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Old 27-06-2015, 07:41   #82
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
It's about their presence, not their agality.
The manatee migration (N to South in fall, & S to North in spring) season officially begins on November 15 and runs through March 31, the period during which watercraft speed restrictions take effect on canals, rivers and the Intracoastal Waterway.
That still doesn't explain the weirdness of 25 vs 30 mph, speed limits only on weekends and holidays, day/night, etc.

Unless those manatees really are agile and move in uniformed scheduled days/times…

We are in FL right now and see plenty of manatees, so some of them missed the northbound bus this year. Maybe they are the younger, more agile ones?

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Old 27-06-2015, 08:37   #83
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

Factors considered in the design of manatee protection zones include water depth, presence of manatee forage (especially seagrass), seasonal counts of manatee populations, boat traffic characteristics, and other resources that may also need protection.

“... There are 3 primary reasons why slower boat speeds are believed to reduce risks to manatees:
(1) greater reaction time for the boat operator to see and avoid
manatees
(2) greater reaction time for manatees to detect approaching boats and move out of the way
(3) reduced severity of injuries in the event that a manatee is hit by a boat ...”

These 3 factors (& more) are explained here:
http://www.int-res.com/articles/esr2007/3/n003p295.pdf
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Old 27-06-2015, 08:56   #84
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

WHAT COLOR IS A WHITE HORSE?? NO WAKE CAN NOT BE ANY CLEARER, IT MEANS NO WAKE. NOT IDLE SPEED, NOT 5 MPH------HELLO!! IT MEANS NO WAKE!!!!
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Old 27-06-2015, 09:12   #85
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

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WHAT COLOR IS A WHITE HORSE??...
Well, most horses that are commonly referred to as "white" are actually "gray" horses whose hair coats are completely white.
But, I get your point.
UC Davis Veterinary Genetics Laboratory
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Old 27-06-2015, 09:18   #86
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

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Originally Posted by VOYAGER II View Post
WHAT COLOR IS A WHITE HORSE?? NO WAKE CAN NOT BE ANY CLEARER, IT MEANS NO WAKE. NOT IDLE SPEED, NOT 5 MPH------HELLO!! IT MEANS NO WAKE!!!!
OTHER THAN A HOVERCRAFT OR SIMILAR NON-CONTACT CRAFT, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO MOVE THROUGH THE WATER WITHOUT A WAKE. THERE IS NO "NO WAKE" - ONLY "REASONABLE" WAKE (WHATEVER THAT IS).

THIS ISN'T AN OPINION, IT IS PHYSICS (AT LEAST ON OUR WORLD).

BTW, WHY ARE WE SHOUTING?

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Old 27-06-2015, 09:20   #87
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Factors considered in the design of manatee protection zones include water depth, presence of manatee forage (especially seagrass), seasonal counts of manatee populations, boat traffic characteristics, and other resources that may also need protection.

“... There are 3 primary reasons why slower boat speeds are believed to reduce risks to manatees:
(1) greater reaction time for the boat operator to see and avoid
manatees
(2) greater reaction time for manatees to detect approaching boats and move out of the way
(3) reduced severity of injuries in the event that a manatee is hit by a boat ...”

These 3 factors (& more) are explained here:
http://www.int-res.com/articles/esr2007/3/n003p295.pdf
Yes, that clears up why it is important to slow down to 25mph instead of 30mph, and why it is OK to speed at night and during weekdays.

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Old 27-06-2015, 09:33   #88
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

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...
Of course there are inconsiderate boaters as well, a friend of mine and I were fishing off my sailboat and some Motor yacht came roaring right over our lines. We had to cut the downrigger line as MV Inconsiderate had picked up our line.
On a friend's idle-speed MV, we cut the fishing line of a boater who was in the middle of the channel in the narrows of the upper navigable portion of the Napa River. -- Not a good place for preserving one's fishing line. -- We recovered the line from the propeller and returned hook and sinker to the fisherman.

New (only) public dock at Napa with recreational-boat capacity of two:

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Old 27-06-2015, 09:51   #89
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

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Factors considered in the design of manatee protection zones include water depth, presence of manatee forage (especially seagrass), seasonal counts of manatee populations, boat traffic characteristics, and other resources that may also need protection.
LOL! Yeah, like those "other resources" such as waterfront development and private property...

;-)

In my observation, no other factor more rigorously defines the establishment and proliferation of Manatee Zones along the ICW in Florida, than the interests of waterfront land owners... The surest way today of getting the waterway in front of your home declared a No Wake Zone, after all, is for it to be defined as a Manatee Zone or habitat...

One of the clearest examples of this in recent memory, is about a 3/4 mile long stretch of the Ditch between Matanzas Inlet, and Marineland... You can see a couple of boats running the ICW at the bottom left of this pic, the area I'm referring to begins near the bottom of the photo, and runs S, out of the picture...





Not until perhaps 8 years ago, was that little island developed beyond its natural state. You can see the beginning of the stretch of homes right at the bottom of the pic, perhaps 40 or so substantial homes built very close together, one of those developments that sprang up, literally, overnight...






I try to avoid running inside between St Augustine and Ponce Inlet like the plague ;-) So, it might have been a year or more between my trips thru there before all that development took place, that sort of thing happens all the time in FL, of course, so I was not surprised... And, what surprised me even less, was the fact that what had been for decades a completely unrestricted section of the ICW, had now been designated as a No Wake Manatee Zone, beginning and ending pretty much precisely at the property lines of the first and last houses in that string of development... :-)

This is a pattern I have seen repeatedly over my years of running N and S, so I'm guessing it's not purely coincidental...

I guess one can only presume, that there are few things more determinant of manatee behavior and migration, than their desire to check out the latest trends in in the design and construction of waterfront real estate and vacation homes...

;-)
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Old 27-06-2015, 09:55   #90
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

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Yes, that clears up why it is important to slow down to 25mph instead of 30mph, and why it is OK to speed at night and during weekdays.

Mark
I'm not a big fan of gov. intervention and don't really need physics 101.

However, the signs cannot be taken out of context. Without knowing their placement. The speed limitations may be entirely separate from the manatee warning? Would you have separate signs?
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