Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 26-06-2015, 15:29   #61
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 4,326
Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

Websters:
the Golden Rule : a general rule for how to behave that says that you should treat people the way you would like other people to treat you.

This is actually a very tricky principle. A great many people misinterpret it to say "you should treat me as I would like to be treated" or "you should treat people as they would like to be treated," which are both very different.

For example, I'm OK with 6 knot wakes (I feel it is my job to tie well), I wave off tiny bumps by other cars and boats (is it really worth the hastle?), and in general I do not expect folks to walk on eggshells around me. On the other hand, many sailors and drivers are fully OCD about boats and cars, and frankly aren't much fun to be around when things get real. If you are afraid of dock rash or a stone bruise on your car, better just stay home.

6 knots or whatever has been posted is the "golden rule" speed in many areas because we agreed upon it. That is the nature of laws. If you have a different figure in mind, talk to the harbormaster.

(inside marina fairways and similar situations safety and common sense dictate lower limits--I'm speaking of the main course)
__________________

__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing

Writing full-time since 2014.
Bookstore:http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...ook-store.html
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-06-2015, 16:51   #62
Registered User
 
hamburking's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kingston Ont Canada
Boat: Looking for my next boat!
Posts: 2,146
Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
How does one travel BELOW idle speed?

Mark
Neutral, or engine off. Maybe paddles?
__________________

__________________
hamburking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-06-2015, 17:26   #63
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trapoc View Post
I will also take people seriously when they state they don't know how to travel "BELOW" idle speed. The below is all caps just the way you put it in your comment.
OK, let me try to re-emphasize that question, since there still seems to be a comprehension problem regardless of the amount of effort I have spent.

"How does one TRAVEL below idle speed?"

For example, the JAX-ST Aug no-wake zone mentioned earlier is 20 miles. Is it really expected that people will be jamming their boats in and out of gear, barely keeping steerage at 1-2kts, during this entire stretch?

Even if wild-eyed, frothed-mouth people are standing in their yards waving their arms and yelling?

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-06-2015, 17:58   #64
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Boat: Hunter Cherubini 27
Posts: 91
Images: 1
Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
OK, let me try to re-emphasize that question, since there still seems to be a comprehension problem regardless of the amount of effort I have spent.

"How does one TRAVEL below idle speed?"

For example, the JAX-ST Aug no-wake zone mentioned earlier is 20 miles. Is it really expected that people will be jamming their boats in and out of gear, barely keeping steerage at 1-2kts, during this entire stretch?

Even if wild-eyed, frothed-mouth people are standing in their yards waving their arms and yelling?

Mark
Well Mark maybe you'll have to time the tides to your favour. I can make it up that stretch with out pi**ing anyone off because of my speed or wake
__________________
trapoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-06-2015, 18:08   #65
Registered User
 
OldFrog75's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Boat: Club Sailor; various
Posts: 922
Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

At Marina del Rey, the no wake zone in the main channel is also posted as 5 kts maximum speed so that's what I pay attention to.

But even with a posted speed limit I would define a wake as white water behind the boat and/or on the waves/ripples caused by the boat as it moves through the water.

When in doubt - don't create white water.
__________________
OldFrog75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-06-2015, 18:19   #66
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 117
Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

Your waterbug analogy contains the answer. If no one can can feel your wake, you aren't making enough to matter to anybody. Let the circumstances rule. If you pass a group of rafted dinghies at the same speed you pass a moored tugboat, you're going to get yelled at. Now if someone would just design a boat that floats on surface tension alone...
__________________
rhubstuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-06-2015, 18:38   #67
Eternal Member

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 848
Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trapoc View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj
OK, let me try to re-emphasize that question, since there still seems to be a comprehension problem regardless of the amount of effort I have spent.

"How does one TRAVEL below idle speed?"

For example, the JAX-ST Aug no-wake zone mentioned earlier is 20 miles. Is it really expected that people will be jamming their boats in and out of gear, barely keeping steerage at 1-2kts, during this entire stretch?

Even if wild-eyed, frothed-mouth people are standing in their yards waving their arms and yelling?

Mark
Well Mark maybe you'll have to time the tides to your favour. I can make it up that stretch with out pi**ing anyone off because of my speed or wake
LOL! Hmmm, do you suppose these locals were playing the tides?

Here's how many of them run thru the lengthy "No Wake Zone" at Palm Valley...

;-)

__________________
Jon Eisberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-06-2015, 18:47   #68
Registered User
 
markpierce's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: M/V Carquinez Coot
Posts: 3,413
Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

Wake at 6.3-knot cruise speed.





Kayaker taking advantage of my hard-to-detect 6.3-knot wake.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-06-2015, 18:53   #69
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 4,326
Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg View Post
LOL! Hmmm, do you suppose these locals were playing the tides?

Here's how many of them run thru the lengthy "No Wake Zone" at Palm Valley...

;-)

Which leads to another question. The man on the board is using a public resource. The man with the water front house built his dock (including marinas) on public property. Depending on the state, the water front owner may or may not even own the beach.

So, as a water front owner, what expectations do I have a right to? A great many water front owners have a warped understanding of the law.

I'm not sayin' I want my boat rocked, but if we can agree on a posted limit, I have zero expectation or right to anything more, IMHO. Just cus I don't like PWC or dirt bikes doesn't mean I can't recognize rights.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing

Writing full-time since 2014.
Bookstore:http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...ook-store.html
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-06-2015, 19:52   #70
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,440
Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

Just wondering: if a one foot wake throws these folks (both landowners and yotties) into a frothing rage, what do they do when nature, as in wind, makes these and even larger waves?

Frankly, I find all this bitching about waves out on the water a bit silly. I agree that within a marina one should not be making waves, but out on the bay or in the ICW (about which I know little, but understand that it covers many miles and is often fairly wide in terms of fetch), I reckon the complainers are just trying to create a power situation.

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-06-2015, 20:04   #71
Registered User
 
scuba0_1's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: naples
Boat: 2005 Catalina 350
Posts: 670
Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

You know on that route some if the owners were putting up there own no wake signs.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
scuba0_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2015, 03:10   #72
Registered User
 
Truemettle's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Sidney, British Columbia, Canada
Boat: C&C 34, 34 feet
Posts: 45
Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

One of the issues is the fact that a large non displacement hull try's to slow down and in doing so creates a larger wake than if they stayed on step.

Of course there are inconsiderate boaters as well, a friend of mine and I were fishing off my sailboat and some Motor yacht came roaring right over our lines. We had to cut the downrigger line as MV Inconsiderate had picked up our line.
__________________
Truemettle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2015, 03:46   #73
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Just wondering: if a one foot wake throws these folks (both landowners and yotties) into a frothing rage, what do they do when nature, as in wind, makes these and even larger waves?

Frankly, I find all this bitching about waves out on the water a bit silly. I agree that within a marina one should not be making waves, but out on the bay or in the ICW (about which I know little, but understand that it covers many miles and is often fairly wide in terms of fetch), I reckon the complainers are just trying to create a power situation.

Jim
What about in an anchorage or mooring field with hundreds of boats where the occupants are expected peace and calm?
__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2015, 04:17   #74
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,440
Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandero View Post
What about in an anchorage or mooring field with hundreds of boats where the occupants are expected peace and calm?
Well, Ann and I have lived mostly at anchor for about 28 years now, and have been in hundreds of anchorages in that time. Virtually all of them have been subject to some sorts of natural disturbances. It is just how life at anchor is, and no experienced anchor-dweller really expects peace and calm at all times, nor do they experience it.

We've been in anchorages where the trades stir up biggish wave trains 24/7. The occasional dickhead who motors through throwing a wake isn't loved, but really, it isn't the end of the world.

If it helps to curse and froth about such events, well have at it, but they are just part of the cruising life they don't talk about at the boat shows. And for the land dwellers who don't like wakes... maybe an inland spot would be less stressful... waves, whether man made or from nature, are part of shoreside living.

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2015, 05:23   #75
Registered User
 
psneeld's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,831
Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

My philosophy on wakes is...


Good seamanship....pretty much para. of Colregs rule #2...


Rule 2 - Responsibility
(a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master, or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case.


goes both ways.....


Sure this isn't about the Colregs directly...but rules for seaman aren't always spectacularly clear, shouldn't be, but usually fall back to the common sense rule that good, experienced mariners usually have.


If you travel, anchor or own a house in a high traffic area....expect some wake. If you can't handle wakes, don't travel, anchor or own a house in a high traffic area like the ICW.


Sure 4 foot wakes from whatever source can be damaging no matter how careful a boater is...but the average wake most people complain about should be uncomfy at best, not dangerous or damaging to the ordinary practice of seamen.


[COLOR=black]For new buyers and builders along the ICW...if you think your new dock deserves a no wake zone...you are dreaming...
__________________

__________________
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Download "In the Wake of the Zaca" TheSailingChannel.TV Vendor Spotlight - Great Deals for CF Members! 0 27-06-2013 08:06
"recent price reduction""owner anxious""bring all offers" sailorboy1 Dollars & Cents 10 22-01-2009 12:25
no wake/low wake zones shellback Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 39 30-06-2008 17:20
How much boat is too much? David M General Sailing Forum 36 09-10-2007 20:02
Draft depth for Caribean Islands - how much is too much? theloneoux General Sailing Forum 11 07-08-2005 14:21



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:02.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.