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Old 26-06-2015, 11:00   #46
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

After clearing a bridge, I got yelled at. My boat hardly makes a wake at 4 or 5 knots, but I was towing the dinghy with 6 hp ob. on it. The dink was the cause of the wake. My bad.

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Old 26-06-2015, 11:03   #47
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

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Originally Posted by dbeausoleil View Post
In the end, if what you are doing looks stupid to a 3rd party observer, chances are it will to the USCG/State Police, Harbor Patrol, or USCG Auxiliary. Being surprised by the results is always the operator's fault.
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Everyone should look at their own wake and surroundings, then apply Golden Rule. Apply Golden Rule?
Exactly . Take a look around. If you are causing problems for fellow boaters, or are causing shoreline damage with your wake, SLOW DOWN! It's really not that hard.
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Old 26-06-2015, 11:08   #48
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
I guess sailing is not allowed through these no wake stretches of the ICW?

There is a boat sailing by me right now that is going much faster than the power boat it is passing. The power boat is throwing a bigger wake. There is no discernable wake at all from the catamaran, and it is doing 6-7kts.

Mark
If the boat in question is doing 6-7 knots in a 5 knot zone then he is breaking the law. The speed limit is posted for other reasons then wakes too. The Manatees and Sea Turtles need enough time to maneuver out of the way of approaching boats. That sailboat could easily reduce sail and bring their speed into compliance. My boat seems to be the perfect boat 5 knot cruise and no discernible wake. colemj have you ever followed your cat when its up to speed. I have followed a few in my day and some do leave a substantial wake. I believe the two hulls on some cats push the water together which I have witnessed leaving a fair sized wake. I have also watched over powered mono hull sailboats do the same thing with their bow and stern wake.
As for power boats I have actually called power boats approaching from my stern and asked them to stay on plane because I know their wake will be less. I have done this in the past because even the most courteous ones never seem to slow down enough before they over take me. Some of the captains I have called really didn't know what to think of my request, I guess figuring it might be a hoax they slowed down anyways rocking my boat up to 30 degrees. The golden rule should be the standard for boat traffic.
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Old 26-06-2015, 11:23   #49
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

I think my AB dinghy leaves a bigger wake at 5 kts than at 20. When in anchorages, with boats spaced widely, I go fast rather than slow since it seems more considerate when no speed signs are posted. Like long explanation above.
Reminds me of a house on a golf course built right on the fairway where owner's get upset when people slice into their houses. What do they expect? Even the pros miss occasionally.
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Old 26-06-2015, 11:25   #50
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

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This is the crazy use of the undefined term "wake". Any forward progress creates a wake!
Most signs I have seen have said "minimum wake" not just wake.
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Old 26-06-2015, 11:32   #51
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

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Originally Posted by Hudson Force View Post
I like clearly defined rules to follow and I like to please people with my compliance to rules, but I've had times to question my interpretation of the "No Wake Zones" that are common in the waterways we traverse.

"No wake" is an unclear subjective term; afterall, a waterbug skimming on a pond leaves a well defined wake. When I slow to 6 knots I produce about a 4 inch amplitude wave or this would be about 8 inches from trough to crest. I usually think of this as my compliance with a "no wake zone" and I rarely have a complaint from those fishing, on docks or kayaking.

Sometimes I will find someone screaming out a "No Wake Zone" reminder to me with this speed and wake. Of course, some boats at 6 knots will produce a wake three or four times mine. Usually, if someone is disturbed by my wake, they have something like an 18 foot boat tied to a cement dock with no fenders and expect no rocking to occur.

I know,.... I know..... I've heard the meaningless definition, "slow to idle speed so that your progress does not produce a wake." The trouble is that "Idle" represents a lower yet still undefined rpm and not a speed and no wake only exists without movement. Many harbors use a 6 kt. speed limit to control wakes and that makes more sense.

So, what are the opinions, given that even a dragonfly skimming the water leaves a wake. How much wake is no wake?
I don't think your boat could create what would be considered a wake. It is more the sport fisherman with umpteen million HP that will.
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Old 26-06-2015, 11:34   #52
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

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Originally Posted by magellanyachts View Post
I think my AB dinghy leaves a bigger wake at 5 kts than at 20. When in anchorages, with boats spaced widely, I go fast rather than slow since it seems more considerate when no speed signs are posted. Like long explanation above.
Reminds me of a house on a golf course built right on the fairway where owner's get upset when people slice into their houses. What do they expect? Even the pros miss occasionally.
Wouldn't you think controlling a golf ball that is doing over a hundred miles an hour with no controllable flight surfaces is substantially harder then piloting a boat at less then 6miles an hour? The boat has a rudder or two and the ability to alter its speed.
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Old 26-06-2015, 12:45   #53
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

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Again with the comprehension. "Travelling" below idle speed is different than "moving" or "maneuvering" below idle speed.

Along the same comprehension line, anything you want to know about us and our travels is located in my signature line. We don't feel the need to "prove" anything to anyone.

Mark
colemj if you don't feel the need to prove anything why post your blog or .com on every comment you make? My statement to you was taking into consideration that you didn't know how to travel below an idle speed. Given that info I would assume you were coming into your docking maneuvers at idle speed and that has been the basis for a lot of laughter on my part watching boaters who don't know how to reduce boat speed. So I taking you at your word truly thought at that time you were inexperienced. I have since looked at your .com and have seen that you must have been being sarcastic. As to prove anything I told you I had a blog and Facebook yes to prove I wasn't full of BS. Yet I don't post it with every comment. I state it to the people that accuse me of being an arm chair sailor. Kind of like what you inferred when you said I should get out of the marina more.
So here we have it you know how to sail and control your boat. I think we may also assume you know how to control your wake so it doesn't do damage to property. For you this topic should have been a no brainier. Because you also have a catamaran you most likely don't have the rolling issue that small mono hulls have. For me wake is a big issue that is caused by many different kinds of boats. It has caused damage more then once on my boat and I will definitely scream, take pictures and video. I will also take people seriously when they state they don't know how to travel "BELOW" idle speed. The below is all caps just the way you put it in your comment. Trying to have a wake free day just once in my life. Charley
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Old 26-06-2015, 12:56   #54
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

In most cases the lowest throttle setting you have without taking the engine out of gear, should be a sufficient reduction of speed to not cause damage. There are always exceptions to this depending on draft and hull configuration. The golden rule is a good one to live by. If you have one of those vessels that throws a monster wake at an idle then pulling it out of gear and coasting would be a good way to minimize the shouting. I would keep enough speed for control of the vessel's movement. With my vessel, due to the deep draft and hull design, I barely throw a wake at hull speed, which is far too fast for me to maneuver in the harbor.
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Old 26-06-2015, 13:04   #55
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

Hello all,
interesting thread but one of the things that I have seen over the years is the fact that slowing down from speed does not generally reduce the wake you have behind you. I was very fortunate to be professionally trained and one of the big things I learnt that I was unaware of was how to correctly take the wake off your boat. I was taught that when running a boat that carried a large wake to slow and then stop the boat and allow the wake to overtake the boat. Once the wake was gone then go ahead slow, by just slowing does not remove the wake.
As stated previously some boats leave little wake when on the plane. Here in Australia no wake does not necessarily mean you have to go slow. Have a look at a large displacement cruiser who is at speed and then slows in the no wake area and you see that there is very little difference in the wake they throw. If the same boat were to come to a complete stop and continue at ideal speed they will have minimal wake.


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Old 26-06-2015, 13:13   #56
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

"How does one travel BELOW idle speed?"
Very easy, Mark. You put the engine in neutral and drift.


For many hundreds of years you could get busted for "vagrancy" if you didn't have cash in pocket. Then in the 70's someone brought it to the Supreme Court who said basically, being broke ain't a crime.


I'd expect that eventually "NO WAKE" will wind up in state and federal courts, because it is arbitrary and capricious, and that's a legal term meaning you'd better throw out the law until you can do better about setting up something objective. Or, you can say "NO WAKE" simply means no boating, you can only drift through here.


When in doubt, ask the local watercops and if you're sticking around, get it from someone in authority, in writing.


If the wake rolling off your boat touches the shore or rocks another vessel before it dissipates? You got it, tell it to the judge. "Be Nice" only works in the sandbox.
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Old 26-06-2015, 13:48   #57
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

I have noticed that bigger boats going at max 2 knots (OK max 2.5 knots) leave hardly any wake. Also flat boats at plane seem to make no wake (e.g. a fast going inflatable without V sections).

In my book anything higher than 1 ft wake would qualify as a 'Wake', but it is ultimatelly up to your harbourmaster, sherif and lawmakers to tell the figures.

b.
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Old 26-06-2015, 14:53   #58
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

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Originally Posted by trapoc View Post
If the boat in question is doing 6-7 knots in a 5 knot zone then he is breaking the law. The speed limit is posted for other reasons then wakes too. The Manatees and Sea Turtles need enough time to maneuver out of the way of approaching boats.
Well, if the Manatee Zone signage throughout Florida is to be believed, some manatees are more 'agile' than others... Depends a lot on the season, as well, the manatees in this area apparently start getting a bit more sluggish in the beginning of October:



On the other hand, these guys practically go into hibernation, and are barely capable of taking evasive action, come November 15...



These manatees apparently only come out on Weekends & Holidays... However, being the Party Animals they are, they can handle a 15" wake as their "Maximum Minimum"...



Some manatees apparently keep pretty regular hours, and turn in early for the evening... Being Florida residents, perhaps they head off for an Early Bird Buffet after 1900?



But the nightime speed restriction is my favorite Stupid Manatee Regulation... Yeah, that 10 mph speed reduction at night is gonna make a BIG difference, alright...



If one is searching for the finest examples of Ultimate Stupidity and Abitrary Regulation, one doesn't have to look any further than those that populate Florida's waters re Manatee Zones...

Most of which require a pair of binoculars to be read from any distance, I might add...

;-)
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Old 26-06-2015, 15:04   #59
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

Idle speed 60 mph put boat in neutral and idle in I've never taken my boat in and out of gear for below idle speed.

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Old 26-06-2015, 15:14   #60
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Re: How much Wake is "No Wake"?

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Is it really expected that one would do this for several miles, or even ten's of miles, of ICW?

Slower than idle speed for us would be almost below the speed necessary to maintain steerage at all. Really. Idle itself is about 1kt.

Mark
I was thinking more of the case of the speedboat that was doing 12 kts at idle. Really, my message to them would be, if your boat can't operate at a safe speed for the waters, you have the option to not operate it.

Where would I get, doing 50mph in a 25 zone, using the excuse that my car won't go any slower?
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