How much say do women really have

[dannc]

Originally Posted by BandB

Wifey B: I was nice talking to the KK lady, but might not be as nice telling you what I think of that entire campaign.

Actually, I did get a response from my email to KK. It was polite and well stated. I still disagree with the approach but understand it from a marketing view and curious to see if it works.

Oh, I well remember reading your opinion on the slogan.

Which is why I could not resist.

Oddly, I just happened to notice the slogan in a KK advertizement in the last few days too.

The word does kinda bother me, unfortunately, I would bet the slogan and campaign will work because I suspect there is some truth behind the new word. I wonder if Sheworthy has been picked up by the Oxford Dictionary?

Later,
Dan

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Bulawayo

Hi BandB - nice posting.
We have spent quite some time in the Middle East - the views of some of these countries regarding women is somewhat disturbing when it comes to recognising the ability of the female of our species.
At the end of the day, officially, there needs to be a captain - what actually happens on board is not always what we write.

Wifey B: We haven't been to the middle east. Frankly, we're a lousy fit there for many reasons. I'm sure they'd disapprove of us as we would of them, not a match made in heaven. Under current circumstances I don't see us cruising to the middle east. If the climate changes one day, then maybe. But today, we're sort of like the antithesis of them.

Europe and the Med are on our plans for future years. I'm guessing maybe 2018 or 2019. We have so many plans....a lifetime worth of them and always adding. Isn't that the way it should be? Always looking forward to the future.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by dannc

Oh, I well remember reading your opinion on the slogan.

Which is why I could not resist.

Oddly, I just happened to notice the slogan in a KK advertizement in the last few days too.

The word does kinda bother me, unfortunately, I would bet the slogan and campaign will work because I suspect there is some truth behind the new word. I wonder if Sheworthy has been picked up by the Oxford Dictionary?

Later,
Dan

Wifey B: Well, I expressed my opinion to them, they explained their point of view. End of story. I went on to other things.

I do think sometimes advertising and marketing people guess wrong as to their customer's perception. I would love to see that program before a focus group. But somehow there are a lot of truly offensive ads that regularly hit the market. In the past, the advertisers didn't hear the response. Now they get blasted in social media and often end up pulling the campaign.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by BandB

...
I do think sometimes advertising and marketing people guess wrong as to their customer's perception. I would love to see that program before a focus group. But somehow there are a lot of truly offensive ads that regularly hit the market. In the past, the advertisers didn't hear the response. Now they get blasted in social media and often end up pulling the campaign.

Agreed.

A few years ago, one of the Disney cruise ships pulled into a Muslim country in north eastern Africa, I forgot which one. When it was time for the ship to depart, an officer was sent to clear out with the local authorities. The ship was NOT allowed to clear out because the officer was a woman and a male officer had to be sent to clear out.

Later,
Dan

[Prairie Chicken]

I was the captain of our a/c; I had more time. He is the captain of our boat; he has more experience. Both of us defer to any safety concerns of the other, and decisions are made in concert. However, I am in the camp that there can really only be one captain at a time. There may be a hand-off of command, not unlike the Pilot Flying/Pilot Not Flying, but there can only be one captain.

As far as the hazards of single engine vs light twins, I agree with Robert that light twins, often with low-time pilots, is a recipe for trouble. I like twins, and redundancy, but I like fly-away capability, and that of course comes with big costs.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming... I'd say we have equal say in choosing the boat. Either has veto power. He has more say on some aspects, me on others. Both of us veto'd cats.

[sailorboy1]

I wonder how women feel about this thread. Tell me and I will listen and not try to fix any of it!

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Since you are so desperate for a win I'll agree with you that no matter how many engines you may have on your boat including the outboard and genset they only burn fuel when you actually run them, obviously this fact went right over my head.

Apparently it did.

[colemj]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Owning 2 engines in a boat are no different than in an aircraft. When you maintain 2 engines the costs are double that of looking after one. The fuel burn is twice as much and to replace them is double as well...this is pretty simple math.

I know this post will be ignored, since ignoring those with actual experience has become a hallmark of CF...

Having actually owned a boat with two engines for the past 12 years, I can say from actual experience that almost all of our motoring is on one engine. That means that while each maintenance period costs us double that of a single engine, those maintenance periods come at twice the length of time as a single engine. I have actual maintenance logs that show this clearly.

Similarly, the fuel burn is the same (again, actual logs available). Since they get half the hours of use and wear of a single engine, the replacement time should also be similar (no logs available, since engine replacement has not occurred). Heck, replacement price of two smaller engines may even be similar to one large one, but I don't know prices.

Robert, how old was your engine and how many operating hours did it have when it needed replacement?

As for redundancy/safety, I can't understand even the germ of the argument where two engines are less redundant than one. I certainly don't understand how aircraft have any similarities to boats in this regard. Again, from actual experience when losing one engine at a bad place/time (broken throttle cable), being able to immediately switch to the other engine saved the boat. I don't see how that is possible with a single engine.

I have never met anyone who, after losing an engine when it was needed (why else would you be running an engine - unless you are a catamaran, of course), said to themselves "I'm so glad I didn't have another engine to use".

Mark

[hoppy]

I wonder what women would prefer when it comes to a rapidly sinking yacht? A mono hull that stays level which in calm water she can step up into the life raft when it's time to abandon ship or a multi that sinks on one hull and will turn turtle any minute?


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by colemj

I know this post will be ignored, since ignoring those with actual experience has become a hallmark of CF...

Having actually owned a boat with two engines for the past 12 years, I can say from actual experience that almost all of our motoring is on one engine. That means that while each maintenance period costs us double that of a single engine, those maintenance periods come at twice the length of time as a single engine. I have actual maintenance logs that show this clearly.

Similarly, the fuel burn is the same (again, actual logs available). Since they get half the hours of use and wear of a single engine, the replacement time should also be similar (no logs available, since engine replacement has not occurred). Heck, replacement price of two smaller engines may even be similar to one large one, but I don't know prices.

Robert, how old was your engine and how many operating hours did it have when it needed replacement?

As for redundancy/safety, I can't understand even the germ of the argument where two engines are less redundant than one. I certainly don't understand how aircraft have any similarities to boats in this regard. Again, from actual experience when losing one engine at a bad place/time (broken throttle cable), being able to immediately switch to the other engine saved the boat. I don't see how that is possible with a single engine.

I have never met anyone who, after losing an engine when it was needed (why else would you be running an engine - unless you are a catamaran, of course), said to themselves "I'm so glad I didn't have another engine to use".

Mark

Mark,
My engine was over 20 years old but fairly low time. Sometimes its not just the total hours but the environment these engines operate in plus not using an engine much is not that good for it either.
A lot of what you have to say makes sense and I concur but not everyone operates their engines just like you nor would have the same experience. Actually most of the Cats out there are charter or have been charter and I have never seen a charter boat using one engine, its usually both balls to the wall.
As to it being a nice thing to have a spare engine at certain times, well that's hard to argue against and I won't however we shouldn't loose the perspective that we are first and foremost a sailboat and as sailors we should posses the necessary skills to operate our boats without the need for auxiliary engines.
As to the relationship between twin engine aircraft and boats I agree with you but I don't think I brought that up in the first place. Cheers, Robert

[sailorboy1]

Some of you people must really abuse your engines if you worry so much about them that you really believe you need two.

[colemj]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Mark,
My engine was over 20 years old but fairly low time. Sometimes its not just the total hours but the environment these engines operate in plus not using an engine much is not that good for it either.
A lot of what you have to say makes sense and I concur but not everyone operates their engines just like you nor would have the same experience. Actually most of the Cats out there are charter or have been charter and I have never seen a charter boat using one engine, its usually both balls to the wall.
As to it being a nice thing to have a spare engine at certain times, well that's hard to argue against and I won't however we shouldn't loose the perspective that we are first and foremost a sailboat and as sailors we should posses the necessary skills to operate our boats without the need for auxiliary engines.
As to the relationship between twin engine aircraft and boats I agree with you but I don't think I brought that up in the first place. Cheers, Robert

Thanks Robert. I asked the age/hrs question because I am curious as to when most small diesels need replacing. Ours are 17yrs and 2500hrs but still seem to operate like new.

I agree on the perspective of being a sailboat (even though we are cat, so must rely on motoring), however, the reality is that having all the sailing skills in the world won't help you a bit when navigating a current-filled cut with no wind, or navigating a marina's fairways and docks, or many other similar situations where one relies on their engine. Even the Pardys got towed around in these situations.

Pretty much all catamaran cruisers we personally know motor on one engine in all but a few circumstances (punching into big seas, navigating a channel with strong current against, docking, etc). These circumstances are usually short-term in use. I don't see how charter operation has any relevance here.

I also think that those here with your perspective that "most of the catamarans existing are charter boats", and the opinions formed by such, have only been living in areas where most of all the boats existing are charter boats. Our experiences over the past 6-7 years have been the opposite - lots of catamarans and no charter companies within a thousand miles or more.

Mark

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by colemj

Thanks Robert. I asked the age/hrs question because I am curious as to when most small diesels need replacing. Ours are 17yrs and 2500hrs but still seem to operate like new.

I agree on the perspective of being a sailboat (even though we are cat, so must rely on motoring), however, the reality is that having all the sailing skills in the world won't help you a bit when navigating a current-filled cut with no wind, or navigating a marina's fairways and docks, or many other similar situations where one relies on their engine. Even the Pardys got towed around in these situations.

Pretty much all catamaran cruisers we personally know motor on one engine in all but a few circumstances (punching into big seas, navigating a channel with strong current against, docking, etc). These circumstances are usually short-term in use. I don't see how charter operation has any relevance here.

I also think that those here with your perspective that "most of the catamarans existing are charter boats", and the opinions formed by such, have only been living in areas where most of all the boats existing are charter boats. Our experiences over the past 6-7 years have been the opposite - lots of catamarans and no charter companies within a thousand miles or more.

Mark

Mark,
I guess my perspective is somewhat tainted as we have spent the last 3 years in the Med and now the Caribbean and the Cat charter business is alive and well in both places.
When we sailed the South Pacific we saw few Cats but the ones we did see were owner/operators.
Australia was where we really saw lots of Cats, most owner/operators.
West Coast Canada/USA they are as scarce as hens teeth.
Cheers, Robert

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by colemj

Thanks Robert. I asked the age/hrs question because I am curious as to when most small diesels need replacing. Ours are 17yrs and 2500hrs but still seem to operate like new.

I don't feel that either the 17 yrs or the 2500 hours mean anything really regarding the life of your engines. What matters is how your have operated the engines during those years and hours and whether you have done basic maintenance on them. More engines die for low hours that high hours I believe because people are all proud that they "barely use" their engines meaning they run them so short of a time that they don't even get up to temperature etc.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I don't feel that either the 17 yrs or the 2500 hours mean anything really regarding the life of your engines. What matters is how your have operated the engines during those years and hours and whether you have done basic maintenance on them. More engines die for low hours that high hours I believe because people are all proud that they "barely use" their engines meaning they run them so short of a time that they don't even get up to temperature etc.

There are so many factors in determining how long an engine lasts. It starts with the manufacturer and the specific engine, it then builds largely on the matter of use and care and there's no formula to calculate a perfect combination because it's so dependent on details. Then there's luck. There are those who do everything right and have a failure and some who abuse one, don't maintain it, and have no problems.