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Old 18-07-2015, 07:28   #61
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Re: How much say do women really have

The development of language maps well to reality. So, terms like Admiral and SWMBO are good indicators of the reality of women's influence.
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Old 18-07-2015, 08:18   #62
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Re: How much say do women really have

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The development of language maps well to reality. So, terms like Admiral and SWMBO are good indicators of the reality of women's influence.
We don't use those terms on our boat and I don't think I would like it if we did.
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Old 18-07-2015, 09:03   #63
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Re: How much say do women really have

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The development of language maps well to reality. So, terms like Admiral and SWMBO are good indicators of the reality of women's influence.
Funny thing is that in my cruising circles, the term Admiral for a woman was never used. CF seems to use the term more.
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Old 18-07-2015, 09:43   #64
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Re: How much say do women really have

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Funny thing is that in my cruising circles, the term Admiral for a woman was never used. CF seems to use the term more.
The vast majority of women seem to hate this derogatory term (used when referring to a female partner that is, in private anything goes ).

There was a thread about it here a couple of years ago:

Admiral?

I burned my bra for the first time on that thread .

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Old 18-07-2015, 09:46   #65
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Re: How much say do women really have

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Funny thing is that in my cruising circles, the term Admiral for a woman was never used. CF seems to use the term more.
I've heard the term "Admiral" used here in the states, but almost exclusively by men who would defend against sharing a equal role with their wives in the operation of their boats.

I'm pretty much aligned with oldragbaggers in that I would not use term. It's often used with the same connotation as, "the old ball & chain"!
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Old 18-07-2015, 09:53   #66
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Re: How much say do women really have

I think these terms are used by older folks that come from traditional marroages
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Old 18-07-2015, 10:09   #67
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Re: How much say do women really have

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I've heard the term "Admiral" used here in the states, but almost exclusively by men who would defend against sharing a equal role with their wives in the operation of their boats.

I'm pretty much aligned with oldragbaggers in that I would not use term. It's often used with the same connotation as, "the old ball & chain"!
The concept of 'sharing the operation of a boat' also goes against the concept of boat management. There is only one Captain. Now if you had said "sharing the ownership of a boat' it would be more accurate.

There is a lot of light hearted joshing going on in thread like this, but the reality is that one person needs to, HAS to assume control of a situation. That is the law of being on a boat. ONE captain. He or she assumes total responsibility for safety and decision making. That is a hard role to share. I dont share it on my boat. I know most of you dont either. I have sailed on vessels with a female captain and generally they are politer but in no way less competent or less demanding of crew when need be.

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Old 18-07-2015, 10:29   #68
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Re: How much say do women really have

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The concept of 'sharing the operation of a boat' also goes against the concept of boat management. There is only one Captain. Now if you had said "sharing the ownership of a boat' it would be more accurate.



There is a lot of light hearted joshing going on in thread like this, but the reality is that one person needs to, HAS to assume control of a situation. That is the law of being on a boat. ONE captain. He or she assumes total responsibility for safety and decision making. That is a hard role to share. I dont share it on my boat. I know most of you dont either. I have sailed on vessels with a female captain and generally they are politer but in no way less competent or less demanding of crew when need be.




Now, no point in introducing a serious note into this thread, nor into the opposite gender thread.


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Old 18-07-2015, 10:31   #69
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Re: How much say do women really have

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Now, no point in introducing a serious note into this thread, nor into the opposite gender thread.


S/V B'Shert
I just didnt want men believing stuff.........

But then......resistance is futile.

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Old 18-07-2015, 10:41   #70
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Re: How much say do women really have

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The concept of 'sharing the operation of a boat' also goes against the concept of boat management. There is only one Captain. Now if you had said "sharing the ownership of a boat' it would be more accurate.

There is a lot of light hearted joshing going on in thread like this, but the reality is that one person needs to, HAS to assume control of a situation. That is the law of being on a boat. ONE captain. He or she assumes total responsibility for safety and decision making. That is a hard role to share. I dont share it on my boat. I know most of you dont either. I have sailed on vessels with a female captain and generally they are politer but in no way less competent or less demanding of crew when need be.

Making the calls when quick decisions need to be made during passages is certainly optimally the responsibility of one person at any one time. For many cruising couples this is the person who is on watch. If both people are awake then non urgent decisions are generally discussed (in our case we always take the safest option if there is any disagreement, allowing for quick resolution with zero resentment). There is no need for one person to be responsible for the boat 100% of the time.

This is a mode that many cruising couples use (including us) and it works very well.

SWL
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Old 18-07-2015, 11:08   #71
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Re: How much say do women really have

At the risk of being serious for a second, we also operate with the on watch person being captain. If no formal watch schedule is in place whoever has the helm is captain.


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Old 18-07-2015, 11:12   #72
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Re: How much say do women really have

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Making the calls when quick decisions need to be made during passages is certainly optimally the responsibility of one person at any one time. For many cruising couples this is the person who is on watch. If both people are awake then non urgent decisions are generally discussed (in our case we always take the safest option if there is any disagreement, allowing for quick resolution with zero resentment). There is no need for one person to be responsible for the boat 100% of the time.

This is a mode that many cruising couples use (including us) and it works very well.

SWL
It will always be the mans fault if something goes wrong.........

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Old 18-07-2015, 11:20   #73
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Re: How much say do women really have

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At the risk of being serious for a second, we also operate with the on watch person being captain. If no formal watch schedule is in place whoever has the helm is captain.


S/V B'Shert
We lazily use the autopilot a lot, so "on watch" is the term we use, even if the watch is not for any specific duration. One person is primarily responsible for lookout, sail trim, navigation etc. Otherwise if both of us are out in the cockpit there is a danger of both of us sitting back and relaxing and assuming the other is keeping an eye out. The nice thing about this is that one person can always relax.

Guess this clearcut allocation of being "on watch" even when sailing in calm conditions with both of us in the cockpit, stems from our flying days where it was always imperative that it was clear who was in control of the aircraft. "Your aircraft" was always met with a clear response of "my aircraft". No confusion then. Same applies now.

Nice to hear the system of one captain at one time, but not necessarily the same captain all the time, works for you too . Lots of cruising couples we have met follow this successfully as well.

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Old 18-07-2015, 11:51   #74
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Re: How much say do women really have

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We lazily use the autopilot a lot, so "on watch" is the term we use, even if the watch is not for any specific duration. One person is primarily responsible for lookout, sail trim, navigation etc. Otherwise if both of us are out in the cockpit there is a danger of both of us sitting back and relaxing and assuming the other is keeping an eye out. The nice thing about this is that one person can always relax.

Guess this clearcut allocation of being "on watch" even when sailing in calm conditions with both of us in the cockpit, stems from our flying days where it was always imperative that it was clear who was in control of the aircraft. "Your aircraft" was always met with a clear response of "my aircraft". No confusion then.

Nice to hear the system of one captain at one time, but not necessarily the same captain all the time, works for you too . Lots of cruising couple we have met follow this successfully as well.

SWL
LOL.... First officer pilot in control is still not the captain. Jes sayin'

I guess my military background and subsequent life journey, makes it hard to accept shared command, for want of a better term. My experience shows that things go awry in a tense situation if both are making independent decisions. Ultimately, ONE person has to assume command.

For the cruising couples who alternate roles whilst on watch, that is no different to a watch keeper making decisions along a predetermined plan, and yet ultimately in an emergency, ONE person has to decide on a course of action.

If yaw'l are content with going along with the choices made in alternation, then thats fine. As for me, I prefer to be under the single direction of a plan and a single experienced decision maker who takes everything into account including the experience of his crew............ but he or she assumes responsibility.

I have never been aboard a boat with a shared captaincy. I have been on boats where EVERYONE is a licenced captain but one ships captain for that vessel. I have been sailing with couples who are well experienced and work well together, but deference is always to the one who is in charge ultimately. It does not diminish the abilities or capabilities of each other, it just is the way it is, even on the paperwork-Captain and crew.

No problem with making a woman the captain if she is highly experienced, even if I was married to her, but............ she takes the role in entirety for all the final decisions, and I will live with it. Just cant get round shared responsibility for the vessel regarding everything just because are married. Does not gel in military, civil marine or boating in general.

Or maybe it does and the rest of us are wrong. It wouldnt be the first time.


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Old 18-07-2015, 12:32   #75
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Re: How much say do women really have

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LOL.... First officer pilot in control is still not the captain. Jes sayin'

I guess my military background and subsequent life journey, makes it hard to accept shared command, for want of a better term. My experience shows that things go awry in a tense situation if both are making independent decisions. Ultimately, ONE person has to assume command.

For the cruising couples who alternate roles whilst on watch, that is no different to a watch keeper making decisions along a predetermined plan, and yet ultimately in an emergency, ONE person has to decide on a course of action.

If yaw'l are content with going along with the choices made in alternation, then thats fine. As for me, I prefer to be under the single direction of a plan and a single experienced decision maker who takes everything into account including the experience of his crew............ but he or she assumes responsibility.

I have never been aboard a boat with a shared captaincy. I have been on boats where EVERYONE is a licenced captain but one ships captain for that vessel. I have been sailing with couples who are well experienced and work well together, but deference is always to the one who is in charge ultimately. It does not diminish the abilities or capabilities of each other, it just is the way it is, even on the paperwork-Captain and crew.

No problem with making a woman the captain if she is highly experienced, even if I was married to her, but............ she takes the role in entirety for all the final decisions, and I will live with it. Just cant get round shared responsibility for the vessel regarding everything just because are married. Does not gel in military, civil marine or boating in general.

Or maybe it does and the rest of us are wrong. It wouldnt be the first time.


Weav, it is not shared at any one time. One person is always clearly "in command". That is why the system works when you have two skilled people on board. And it works better in my opinion than having one person responsible. When the "captain" is asleep during their off watch and decisions need to be made that can easily be handled by the other crew member, it is not optimal waking the "captain" up. Having someone half awake, unaware of circumstances, wasting time while getting dressed and trying to make a reasonable decision without personally being acquainted with the circumstances is way short of ideal. Also it results in sleep deprivation if this occurs several times during an off watch. Fatigue then ultimately leads to bad judgement.

And sailing is not war . Following military principles only often results in one of the crew going AWOL.

SWL
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