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Old 13-10-2010, 16:54   #1
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How Much Is a 'Fair Price to Pay'

We are looking at undertaking one if not two Ocean Crossings as a couple. We are considering inviting others onboard to share the journey, experience and costs.

This leads to a couple of questions..
What is a fair price to ask for in a "shared expenses" arrangement? (Food, Fuel, Gas, Water, marinas, etc)
What is a fair feeding arrangement? (Lets say one has "special needs" due to ibs or some other problem -it has happened in the past)
What happens when the 200lb guy eats more than the skinny girl and she complains?

We have also consered Sleeping Arrangements and personalities. Is there something esle we have forgotten?

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Old 13-10-2010, 17:56   #2
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In the US if you charge people money to go from A to B you're carrying paying passengers and need to have a captain's license along with increased safety requirements. I'm sure many other countries have this stipulation as well so if you go ahead with the plan make sure you keep it off the books. I know in your mind it's "shared expenses" but there's not a lot of grey area around "you need to pay money to go on this boat from A to B". I'm not trying to be stupid about it; I chip in for gas whenever my friend and I go fishing on his boat. But if you're going to be clearing into other nations, you need to have your paperwork in order for crew manifests and the such (and never refer to them as "passengers").

I'd definitely do some local cruising with them first; a weekend somewhere just to see how it works out. There are some people who seem great on the dock but turn into lunatics when you spend 48 hours with them on a boat.

I'd give them some flexibility and options for the food stuff. I probably eat different than you, so I'd be appreciative of an option like "this is what we were going to get, so we were thinking of just adding 20% to cover you (or whatever), but maybe you'd like some other things instead so maybe you buy a few menu items and then we just overbuy by 10%, etc".

It's a pretty personal arrangement though; completely understandable that you want to get this right.
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Old 13-10-2010, 18:04   #3
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G'day, Mate. Our crew paid for their own transportation costs to get to and from the boat. They also contributed to the cost of food and beverages they consumed. Cheers
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Old 13-10-2010, 18:05   #4
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There are very few friends that I'd go cruising with. They might be great folks on shore but beyond the sight of land, things can go bad quickly. Rebel Heart is right, get to know them a bit first.

But you're talking about taking strangers with you. It's been done, and will continue to be done, often successfully. But often, it's a nightmare. I go sailing and cruising for pleasure. If you charge enough to 'make some money', i.e. more than expenses, then it'll be hard earned for sure. If you only receive enough to cover their actually costs, then you're really no further ahead AND you've upped the risk for your own enjoyment.

If you need crew to handle the boat, now you're at their mercy and lucky you don't have to pay them instead of them paying you.
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Old 13-10-2010, 18:08   #5
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There are very few friends that I'd go cruising with.
It's the same for me. In my case (and maybe this is true for others) our boat is our home. My two month old daughter is asleep right now in the sea berth and I'm sitting in the settee in my boxers typing on the netbook; having someone else on board (even a great friend) would really mess up our vibe.

I just re-read the first post; someone has IBS? I feel terrible for that guy/gal. That's a tough problem to have.
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Old 13-10-2010, 18:49   #6
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Originally Posted by ozskipper View Post
How Much Is a 'Fair Price to Pay'
If its the right boat and destination I've usually been happy enough with food, beverages a weeks accommodations (off boat) at destination and flights home.
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Old 13-10-2010, 19:38   #7
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Originally Posted by ozskipper View Post
What is a fair price to ask for in a "shared expenses" arrangement? (Food, Fuel, Gas, Water, marinas, etc).
There is no rule. My own take is:

- If we invite people to come with us, we pay everything (marina, fuel, food onboard).
- If someone wants to go with us (e.g. a sailing vagabundo, not a guest), they pay their food and their share in all costs (if we go the two of us - then 50%),
- if they are a passenger then I will also ask an extra amount for the pleasure of having them around, treating them like a china vase and cleaning up their puke.

Quote:
What is a fair feeding arrangement? (Lets say one has "special needs" due to ibs or some other problem - it has happened in the past)
If you have anybody using much more than they contributed then you talk it over with this person and request them to pay up the balance (or else you just let it be, depending on what things are like inthis specific case).

Quote:
What happens when the 200lb guy eats more than the skinny girl and she complains?
Then it probably means you (or him or her) did not prepare enough food. Prepare more food next time, otherwise the skinny girl will be unhappy and an unhappy skinny girl counts as only half a crew.

Quote:
We have also consered Sleeping Arrangements and personalities. Is there something esle we have forgotten?
It is OK, most of the time, to put two strangers in the same cabin, except if one of them snores in a despicable manner.

b.
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Old 13-10-2010, 19:48   #8
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It is OK, most of the time, to put two strangers in the same cabin, except if one of them snores in a despicable manner.

b.
That's me.

And you can't escape it no matter where you are on the boat.

I need a bigger boat I guess.
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Old 13-10-2010, 23:30   #9
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FWIW, have been told that you have to be very careful when charging for anything at all, even for expenses such as shared food and beer and fuel. I have been told that to do so makes your voyage "commercial", with all sorts of legal / liability implications.
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Old 14-10-2010, 02:04   #10
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The original poster should beware of shoal waters here....

Here's a bit that I found...
The definition of "passenger" for all passenger-carrying vessels is found in 46 United States Code 2102 (21)(A). ... Passengers for hire are defined as those passengers who have "contributed consideration as condition of carriage on the vessel, whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator, agent, or any other person having an interest in the vessel."

Chapman's Piloting and Seamanship: "...specifically excluded is the voluntary sharing of actual expenses of the voyage by monetary contribution or by making a donation in kind of fuel, food, beverages, or other supplies." "...In all other situations, where there is a consideration for passage, the craft is considered as operating commercially..."
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Old 14-10-2010, 02:41   #11
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The question about the big guy eating more than the little gal is interesting and a great question.

I was recently reading some stuff about provisioning and feeding of ocean racer types. The heavy lifters, grinders and deck guys consume 4-5,000 calories a day and still lose weight. I gotta believe the helm isn't burning 5kcals a day...

The gal may be assigned galley duties, which is equally important work but you gotta ask yourself if the guy (or gal) consuming the calories is getting fat or burning them up with work...


The skinny minnie could still complain about the caloric intake but if someone was that pedantic I wouldn't have em on board. Everyone contributes the same to the larder.

The difficult one for me is booze. I think if you provision booze you gotta do it separately or figure out something amicable in advance.
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Old 14-10-2010, 05:20   #12
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Ex-Calif hits it on the head....food is sustenance.....booze....is for morale....as someone who has spent months living on meals-ready-to-eat...i would quickly dispense of all reservations for only one sip of cuban rum.....
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Old 14-10-2010, 10:09   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgscpat View Post
The original poster should beware of shoal waters here....

Here's a bit that I found...
The definition of "passenger" for all passenger-carrying vessels is found in 46 United States Code 2102 (21)(A). ... Passengers for hire are defined as those passengers who have "contributed consideration as condition of carriage on the vessel, whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator, agent, or any other person having an interest in the vessel."

Chapman's Piloting and Seamanship: "...specifically excluded is the voluntary sharing of actual expenses of the voyage by monetary contribution or by making a donation in kind of fuel, food, beverages, or other supplies." "...In all other situations, where there is a consideration for passage, the craft is considered as operating commercially..."
That's the keyword, and that's why nearly every time money is changing hands it's passenger situation. You wouldn't go fishing with a guy who isn't chipping in for gas, you wouldn't take the guy on your boat unless he's chipping in for food, etc. Unless it makes absolutely no difference (re: voluntary), it's a paying passenger.
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Old 14-10-2010, 18:56   #14
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I'd never even consider doing provisioning for others. Take a full day - everyone sits down and makes lists of their dietary requirements, compare lists to figure out the obvious crossovers, rent a van, then head to the market as a "family" and have a shopping party. Bill gets divided evenly. Everyone purchase alcohol on their own and per their desires.

I like communal activities like "shopping sprees" because they expose differences in expectations and interpersonal tendencies. You also get to see just how a specific group reacts together and works with one another. Who takes initiative and who only does something if told? How does everyone react when Jim drops the 5lb jar of pickles on aisle #3? Tease him as you distance yourself from the embarassment? Play traffic cop so no passer by strays into the glass? Does somebody immediately take it upon themselves to go grab a store clerk? Does anyone genuinely ridicule Jim? Do you all stand there laughing with each other about the first of what are to be more mishaps and your ruckus naturally invites the attention of others, some of whom will do each of the above whilst you together work through what is in essence a silly little inevitability? Lots of little things that are good clues as to how a crew will function together. Best to figure as much of those tendencies out BEFORE you find yourself in the middle of a big ocean where you can't more than 40 feet away from someone whose little 'nail on a blackboard' habit tugs on your last nerve.

I personally wouldn't want to live in confined quarters with anyone who'd desire to nitpick all of the fine details. What I seek are those who desire to share an experience. The basic costs of that overall shared experience is best evenly divided up imo. Provisions (sans alchohol), fuel, customs fees, marina fees, and the like ll get divided up evenly. Since it's a shared adventure, and NOT a business relationship - I don't believe in nickel and diming the minutia. I'm more concerned with everyone enjoying themselves and sharing a common outlook works towards success in that goal.

So I'd say that's the ticket. Try to seek out folks with a similar outlook as yours, and the rest is likely to take care or itself. The crew you'd select would no doubt look different than the crew I'd select. Just concentrate on whether or not you're complimentary to one another and you'll be golden!
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Old 15-10-2010, 12:02   #15
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have them take what they like

This one thing too:

- I always take my culinary 'must haves' with me when I crew. I also request the same attitude from people who sail with me: take your 'must haves' and do not expect me to have marzipan, pimenton dulce de la vera and licorice onboard.

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