Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 19-01-2007, 04:34   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,313
How much gear do you carry?

There has been an interesting debate going on in the Lagoon 420 thread about the wright of the boat and it's load carrying ability. One side says light is better and carrying minimum gear is the best and you can still maintain speed. The other side argues the Lagoon is built to carry more payload and is heavier because of it and speed will be comparable to a similar sized mono.

So what gear does everyone carry and what does it weigh? I'll start with our estimate for 4 people.

Sails 1,000#
Water, 300 gallons, 2400#
Fuel, 200 gallons, 1600#
Ground tackle, 400' of 3/8 high tensile, 400#
150' 1/2 BBB 200#
600' 3/6 3 strand, 200#
100# bruce
100# CQR
44# Danforth
Extra sailing gear. blocks, winch handles, sheets 200#
Power cords 300#
Generaror in leau of wind or solar 300#
Food, drinks 300#
Extra batteries, 400#
Auto Pilot 50#
Dinghy, motor, fuel, no davits, deck stored. 600#
Spares, and tools, 500#
Charts, instruments, laptop 100#
Books, 200#
TV, DVD, 50#
Clothing, olies. 300#
Safety gear, harness, jacklines, flares, 200#
Cleaning supplies. 100#
Misc. 200#
Us 700#

Total, 10,550# but I probably missed some items.

I can't think what could be removed to lighten the boat.
__________________

__________________
Joli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-01-2007, 06:53   #2
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Is this lb's Joli?, and if it is do you really carry 2 x 100lb, or 45 kg Anchor's.

That a bloody big pick.

from Lewmar

CLAWRecommendations

Boat Size :70-80 FT / 21.34-24.39M Standard Recommendation 0057950 CLAW (Galvanised) 50Kg/110Lbs

CQRRecommendations

Boat Size :70-80 FT / 21.34-24.39M Standard Recommendation 0056509 CQR Anchor (Drop Foed Galvanised) 34kg/75lb

Lewmar did not have a listing for 100 ft craft, so could only find a 75 lb plough



Dave
__________________

__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising – It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-01-2007, 07:52   #3
Registered User
 
Raven's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lake Champlain, Vermont
Boat: Pacific Seacraft Crealock 34 - "Raven"
Posts: 213
Images: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joli

Power cords 300#

Cleaning supplies. 100#

I can't think what could be removed to lighten the boat.
There are a lot of questions I have with regard to the list, but, in response to your question about what can be removed from the boat, two come to mind. Three hundred pounds of power cord? One hundred pounds of cleaning supplies? (I've assumed you're talking pounds here since the 300 lbs of water added up correctly to 2400 lbs.)
__________________
Kevin Rose
Pacific Seacraft Crealock 34 - Raven
Burlington, Vermont
Raven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-01-2007, 09:11   #4
Registered User
 
Tnflakbait's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Southern California
Boat: CSK, 33' Aita Pe'ape'a
Posts: 338
Images: 7
I agree, 100 pounds of cleaning supplies is crazy. You should pay attention to the weight regardless of the fact that a Lagoon is not a "fast" catamaran. You could still surf down a wave and bury the bows. 1000#s of sails?
You also should be smart about the distribution of weight. Good luck. Keep her light, its how cats work.
__________________
Tnflakbait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-01-2007, 09:12   #5
Registered User
 
Tnflakbait's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Southern California
Boat: CSK, 33' Aita Pe'ape'a
Posts: 338
Images: 7
ps Solar or wind would be lighter than a generator. Use led lighting and carry less batteries. Good luck
__________________
Tnflakbait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-01-2007, 09:33   #6
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,525
Also, did I read 1000# of sails? What are you guys using? My main and genoa only weigh (guesstimate) about 160lbs. That's all my sail weight. Even with a spinnaker, I don' t think sails would be 1000lbs. How many sails do you have? (Did I mention I'm envious?? )

I'll try filling out your form, even though for our boat it's probably different. We have a 45' mono with 26,000lbs displacement before all the crap goes in:

Sails 160#
Water, 140 gallons, 1167#
Fuel, 55 gallons, 458#
Ground tackle, 200' of 3/8 BBB, 300#
15' 1/2 BBB 20#
300' 3/6 3 strand, 100#
35# CQR
45# CQR
***We need more anchors
Extra sailing gear. blocks, winch handles, sheets 200#
Tools/spares 500#
Power cords 15#
Generaror in leau of wind or solar 200#
Food, drinks 300#
Extra batteries, 300#
Auto Pilot 50#
Dinghy, motor, fuel, on davits. 300#
Charts, instruments, laptop 100#
Books, 200#
TV, DVD, 50#
Clothing 100#
Safety gear, harness, jacklines, flares, 200#
Cleaning supplies. 20# (dirty sailors!)
Misc. 200#
Us 268#
TOTAL = 4,688 lbs, new displacement is 30,688 lbs.

Big difference, which also begs to ask the questions:

What does this do to capsize screening ratios? Does having some or all of this weight below the waterline help? Is it vital to have it in the bilge, or is having it at least below the center of mass (with respect to a rolling boat) good enough? How does this affect draft? How will it affect performance and/or pitchpoling?

Any naval architechts on the forum?
__________________
ssullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-01-2007, 13:22   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven
There are a lot of questions I have with regard to the list, but, in response to your question about what can be removed from the boat, two come to mind. Three hundred pounds of power cord? One hundred pounds of cleaning supplies? (I've assumed you're talking pounds here since the 300 lbs of water added up correctly to 2400 lbs.)
Sure we carry (2) 50 foot 50 amp cords, (2) 50 foot 30 amp cords, adapters. Yea, 200 lbs easy.

Cleaning supplies, 3-4 gallons of cleaners, waxes, sprays, towels, sponges, brushes, long handle brushes, buckets... yea 100 lbs.
__________________
Joli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-01-2007, 13:24   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do
Is this lb's Joli?, and if it is do you really carry 2 x 100lb, or 45 kg Anchor's.

That a bloody big pick.

from Lewmar

CLAWRecommendations

Boat Size :70-80 FT / 21.34-24.39M Standard Recommendation 0057950 CLAW (Galvanised) 50Kg/110Lbs

CQRRecommendations

Boat Size :70-80 FT / 21.34-24.39M Standard Recommendation 0056509 CQR Anchor (Drop Foed Galvanised) 34kg/75lb

Lewmar did not have a listing for 100 ft craft, so could only find a 75 lb plough



Dave
And if I could find a 176 lb bruce I would carry that also. It's good to park it at the end of a trip and sleep well. We also carry spare windlass gypsy's, motor, brushes, seals,,,,
__________________
Joli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-01-2007, 13:26   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnflakbait
ps Solar or wind would be lighter than a generator. Use led lighting and carry less batteries. Good luck
We have 1400 AH with dual voltages. 12 and 24 volt. The hassle of trying to charge all that with wind and solar would be a true pain in the a,,. It's just easier to run a generator and charge both banks with two dedicated chargers.
__________________
Joli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-01-2007, 13:32   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssullivan
Also, did I read 1000# of sails? What are you guys using? My main and genoa only weigh (guesstimate) about 160lbs. That's all my sail weight. Even with a spinnaker, I don' t think sails would be 1000lbs. How many sails do you have? (Did I mention I'm envious?? )

I'll try filling out your form, even though for our boat it's probably different. We have a 45' mono with 26,000lbs displacement before all the crap goes in:

Sails 160#
Water, 140 gallons, 1167#
Fuel, 55 gallons, 458#
Ground tackle, 200' of 3/8 BBB, 300#
15' 1/2 BBB 20#
300' 3/6 3 strand, 100#
35# CQR
45# CQR
***We need more anchors
Extra sailing gear. blocks, winch handles, sheets 200#
Tools/spares 500#
Power cords 15#
Generaror in leau of wind or solar 200#
Food, drinks 300#
Extra batteries, 300#
Auto Pilot 50#
Dinghy, motor, fuel, on davits. 300#
Charts, instruments, laptop 100#
Books, 200#
TV, DVD, 50#
Clothing 100#
Safety gear, harness, jacklines, flares, 200#
Cleaning supplies. 20# (dirty sailors!)
Misc. 200#
Us 268#
TOTAL = 4,688 lbs, new displacement is 30,688 lbs.

Big difference, which also begs to ask the questions:

What does this do to capsize screening ratios? Does having some or all of this weight below the waterline help? Is it vital to have it in the bilge, or is having it at least below the center of mass (with respect to a rolling boat) good enough? How does this affect draft? How will it affect performance and/or pitchpoling?

Any naval architechts on the forum?
The main and jib alone with all the hardware is north of 600 pounds, then add two kites, storm sails and a light reacher. Don't forget to add repair cloth, tape,,,,

It all adds up.

We added 20% to our displacement Sean, just as you did. Carry four people and see what happens.
__________________
Joli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-01-2007, 13:44   #11
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Whangaparaoa,NZ
Boat: 63 ft John Spencer Schooner
Posts: 956
Rule of thumb, if you haven't used it in 12 months, toss it. I'd loosde the TV and the dinghy, replace it with a lightweight hard dinghy that rows superbly and has a sailing rig , but I don't expect you all to agree.
General observation is that over the last 10-15 years cruisers have added way way too much "stuff" to their boats with a negative effect on both safety and performance, as well as the need to replace/maintain, hence they hang around town moaning about doing maintenance or waiting for parts and not enjoying themselves.
Soory if that sounded like a rant, but go through that list really aggressively, ask yourself will I die without this? and see how little you really need.
__________________
dana-tenacity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-01-2007, 14:02   #12
Registered User
 
Raven's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lake Champlain, Vermont
Boat: Pacific Seacraft Crealock 34 - "Raven"
Posts: 213
Images: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joli
Sure we carry (2) 50 foot 50 amp cords, (2) 50 foot 30 amp cords, adapters. Yea, 200 lbs easy.

Cleaning supplies, 3-4 gallons of cleaners, waxes, sprays, towels, sponges, brushes, long handle brushes, buckets... yea 100 lbs.
Wow! My 50 amp, 50' cord weighs 30 lbs and the 30 amp version weighs in at less than 15. I questioned the number in your original post (300#) because knew I'd have to carry a half-dozen of each to make that weight.
__________________
Kevin Rose
Pacific Seacraft Crealock 34 - Raven
Burlington, Vermont
Raven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-01-2007, 14:17   #13
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,525
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joli
The main and jib alone with all the hardware is north of 600 pounds, then add two kites, storm sails and a light reacher. Don't forget to add repair cloth, tape,,,,

It all adds up.

We added 20% to our displacement Sean, just as you did. Carry four people and see what happens.
If you have 600lbs of mainsail and jib, you definitely need to check into another sailmaker that isn't using lead... lol

How do you carry each sail in its bag when it's weighing in at 300lbs? I just can't understand this figure. I move my sails around by hand in a sail bag when I take them down in the winters. Just me... no help from the wife. They are bulky, that's for sure, but they only weigh about 100lbs tops.

So do you have 4 people that are going to cruise full time on this boat? Is that what you mean by "carry four people and see what happens?"

And... WOW! Those lagoon 420's are really 50,000lbs displacement?? And I thought cats were light. I sure am learning about cats. I don't know anything at all.

PS: Ahhh... didn't include my shore power cables under the "power cords" section. I should edit that.
__________________
ssullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-01-2007, 14:35   #14
Registered User
 
Raven's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lake Champlain, Vermont
Boat: Pacific Seacraft Crealock 34 - "Raven"
Posts: 213
Images: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssullivan
And... WOW! Those lagoon 420's are really 50,000lbs displacement?? And I thought cats were light. I sure am learning about cats. I don't know anything at all.
Out of curiosity, I looked up the specs for the 2007 Lagoon 420 (below).

Light displacement: 25,800 lbs
Max displacement (EEC) 31,800 lbs
__________________
Kevin Rose
Pacific Seacraft Crealock 34 - Raven
Burlington, Vermont
Raven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-01-2007, 16:59   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,313
We do not own a Lagoon. We own an old lead mine but carry what we need to run the boat. It works out to be 20% of displacment.

Sean, our main is spectra and our jib is two ply 9 oz. We use halyards to pull sails out of the sail locker. We can't lift them.

I asked the question about what people carry because some are comparing light ships to cruising weights. It is not a fair comparison.

Kevin mentioned max weight for a Lagoon 420 and you see 6k is the max they want you to carry. I would think that is a realistic number for a cruiser.
__________________

__________________
Joli is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anti-Chafing Gear karlg Construction, Maintenance & Refit 48 20-03-2010 13:49
Possible Insight Into Why Americans Want to Carry Guns ssullivan Health, Safety & Related Gear 57 27-03-2007 13:25
Gear Report GordMay Auxiliary Equipment & Dinghy 1 18-09-2006 12:36
What gear would you recomend? MrShankmmz Other 4 06-09-2004 11:25



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:44.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.