How much gear do you carry?

Joli · 19-01-2007, 04:34

There has been an interesting debate going on in the Lagoon 420 thread about the wright of the boat and it's load carrying ability. One side says light is better and carrying minimum gear is the best and you can still maintain speed. The other side argues the Lagoon is built to carry more payload and is heavier because of it and speed will be comparable to a similar sized mono.

So what gear does everyone carry and what does it weigh? I'll start with our estimate for 4 people.

Sails 1,000#
Water, 300 gallons, 2400#
Fuel, 200 gallons, 1600#
Ground tackle, 400' of 3/8 high tensile, 400#
150' 1/2 BBB 200#
600' 3/6 3 strand, 200#
100# bruce
100# CQR
44# Danforth
Extra sailing gear. blocks, winch handles, sheets 200#
Power cords 300#
Generaror in leau of wind or solar 300#
Food, drinks 300#
Extra batteries, 400#
Auto Pilot 50#
Dinghy, motor, fuel, no davits, deck stored. 600#
Spares, and tools, 500#
Charts, instruments, laptop 100#
Books, 200#
TV, DVD, 50#
Clothing, olies. 300#
Safety gear, harness, jacklines, flares, 200#
Cleaning supplies. 100#
Misc. 200#
Us 700#

Total, 10,550# but I probably missed some items.

I can't think what could be removed to lighten the boat.

cat man do · 19-01-2007, 06:53

Is this lb's Joli?, and if it is do you really carry 2 x 100lb, or 45 kg Anchor's.

That a bloody big pick.

from Lewmar

CLAW

Recommendations

Boat Size :70-80 FT / 21.34-24.39M Standard Recommendation 0057950 CLAW (Galvanised) 50Kg/110Lbs

CQR

Recommendations

Boat Size :70-80 FT / 21.34-24.39M Standard Recommendation 0056509 CQR Anchor (Drop Foed Galvanised) 34kg/75lb

Lewmar did not have a listing for 100 ft craft, so could only find a 75 lb plough

Dave

Joli · 19-01-2007, 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by cat man do

Is this lb's Joli?, and if it is do you really carry 2 x 100lb, or 45 kg Anchor's.

That a bloody big pick.

from Lewmar

CLAW

Recommendations

Boat Size :70-80 FT / 21.34-24.39M Standard Recommendation 0057950 CLAW (Galvanised) 50Kg/110Lbs

CQR

Recommendations

Boat Size :70-80 FT / 21.34-24.39M Standard Recommendation 0056509 CQR Anchor (Drop Foed Galvanised) 34kg/75lb

Lewmar did not have a listing for 100 ft craft, so could only find a 75 lb plough

Dave

And if I could find a 176 lb bruce I would carry that also. It's good to park it at the end of a trip and sleep well. We also carry spare windlass gypsy's, motor, brushes, seals,,,,

cat man do · 19-01-2007, 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joli

And if I could find a 176 lb bruce I would carry that also. It's good to park it at the end of a trip and sleep well. We also carry spare windlass gypsy's, motor, brushes, seals,,,,

Ask around the Oil Rig's, they may be able to help in your anchoring requirement's

Dave

Raven · 19-01-2007, 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joli

Power cords 300#

Cleaning supplies. 100#

I can't think what could be removed to lighten the boat.

There are a lot of questions I have with regard to the list, but, in response to your question about what can be removed from the boat, two come to mind. Three hundred pounds of power cord? One hundred pounds of cleaning supplies? (I've assumed you're talking pounds here since the 300 lbs of water added up correctly to 2400 lbs.)

Tnflakbait · 19-01-2007, 09:11

I agree, 100 pounds of cleaning supplies is crazy. You should pay attention to the weight regardless of the fact that a Lagoon is not a "fast" catamaran. You could still surf down a wave and bury the bows. 1000#s of sails?
You also should be smart about the distribution of weight. Good luck. Keep her light, its how cats work.

Tnflakbait · 19-01-2007, 09:12

ps Solar or wind would be lighter than a generator. Use led lighting and carry less batteries. Good luck

Joli · 19-01-2007, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tnflakbait

ps Solar or wind would be lighter than a generator. Use led lighting and carry less batteries. Good luck

We have 1400 AH with dual voltages. 12 and 24 volt. The hassle of trying to charge all that with wind and solar would be a true pain in the a,,. It's just easier to run a generator and charge both banks with two dedicated chargers.

Joli · 19-01-2007, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raven

There are a lot of questions I have with regard to the list, but, in response to your question about what can be removed from the boat, two come to mind. Three hundred pounds of power cord? One hundred pounds of cleaning supplies? (I've assumed you're talking pounds here since the 300 lbs of water added up correctly to 2400 lbs.)

Sure we carry (2) 50 foot 50 amp cords, (2) 50 foot 30 amp cords, adapters. Yea, 200 lbs easy.

Cleaning supplies, 3-4 gallons of cleaners, waxes, sprays, towels, sponges, brushes, long handle brushes, buckets... yea 100 lbs.

Raven · 19-01-2007, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joli

Sure we carry (2) 50 foot 50 amp cords, (2) 50 foot 30 amp cords, adapters. Yea, 200 lbs easy.

Cleaning supplies, 3-4 gallons of cleaners, waxes, sprays, towels, sponges, brushes, long handle brushes, buckets... yea 100 lbs.

Wow! My 50 amp, 50' cord weighs 30 lbs and the 30 amp version weighs in at less than 15. I questioned the number in your original post (300#) because knew I'd have to carry a half-dozen of each to make that weight.

ssullivan · 19-01-2007, 09:33

Also, did I read 1000# of sails? What are you guys using? My main and genoa only weigh (guesstimate) about 160lbs. That's all my sail weight. Even with a spinnaker, I don' t think sails would be 1000lbs. How many sails do you have? (Did I mention I'm envious?? )

I'll try filling out your form, even though for our boat it's probably different. We have a 45' mono with 26,000lbs displacement before all the crap goes in:

Sails 160#
Water, 140 gallons, 1167#
Fuel, 55 gallons, 458#
Ground tackle, 200' of 3/8 BBB, 300#
15' 1/2 BBB 20#
300' 3/6 3 strand, 100#
35# CQR
45# CQR
***We need more anchors
Extra sailing gear. blocks, winch handles, sheets 200#
Tools/spares 500#
Power cords 15#
Generaror in leau of wind or solar 200#
Food, drinks 300#
Extra batteries, 300#
Auto Pilot 50#
Dinghy, motor, fuel, on davits. 300#
Charts, instruments, laptop 100#
Books, 200#
TV, DVD, 50#
Clothing 100#
Safety gear, harness, jacklines, flares, 200#
Cleaning supplies. 20# (dirty sailors!)
Misc. 200#
Us 268#
TOTAL = 4,688 lbs, new displacement is 30,688 lbs.

Big difference, which also begs to ask the questions:

What does this do to capsize screening ratios? Does having some or all of this weight below the waterline help? Is it vital to have it in the bilge, or is having it at least below the center of mass (with respect to a rolling boat) good enough? How does this affect draft? How will it affect performance and/or pitchpoling?

Any naval architechts on the forum?

Joli · 19-01-2007, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssullivan

Also, did I read 1000# of sails? What are you guys using? My main and genoa only weigh (guesstimate) about 160lbs. That's all my sail weight. Even with a spinnaker, I don' t think sails would be 1000lbs. How many sails do you have? (Did I mention I'm envious?? )

I'll try filling out your form, even though for our boat it's probably different. We have a 45' mono with 26,000lbs displacement before all the crap goes in:

Sails 160#
Water, 140 gallons, 1167#
Fuel, 55 gallons, 458#
Ground tackle, 200' of 3/8 BBB, 300#
15' 1/2 BBB 20#
300' 3/6 3 strand, 100#
35# CQR
45# CQR
***We need more anchors
Extra sailing gear. blocks, winch handles, sheets 200#
Tools/spares 500#
Power cords 15#
Generaror in leau of wind or solar 200#
Food, drinks 300#
Extra batteries, 300#
Auto Pilot 50#
Dinghy, motor, fuel, on davits. 300#
Charts, instruments, laptop 100#
Books, 200#
TV, DVD, 50#
Clothing 100#
Safety gear, harness, jacklines, flares, 200#
Cleaning supplies. 20# (dirty sailors!)
Misc. 200#
Us 268#
TOTAL = 4,688 lbs, new displacement is 30,688 lbs.

Big difference, which also begs to ask the questions:

What does this do to capsize screening ratios? Does having some or all of this weight below the waterline help? Is it vital to have it in the bilge, or is having it at least below the center of mass (with respect to a rolling boat) good enough? How does this affect draft? How will it affect performance and/or pitchpoling?

Any naval architechts on the forum?

The main and jib alone with all the hardware is north of 600 pounds, then add two kites, storm sails and a light reacher. Don't forget to add repair cloth, tape,,,,

It all adds up.

We added 20% to our displacement Sean, just as you did. Carry four people and see what happens.

ssullivan · 19-01-2007, 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joli

The main and jib alone with all the hardware is north of 600 pounds, then add two kites, storm sails and a light reacher. Don't forget to add repair cloth, tape,,,,

It all adds up.

We added 20% to our displacement Sean, just as you did. Carry four people and see what happens.

If you have 600lbs of mainsail and jib, you definitely need to check into another sailmaker that isn't using lead... lol

How do you carry each sail in its bag when it's weighing in at 300lbs? I just can't understand this figure. I move my sails around by hand in a sail bag when I take them down in the winters. Just me... no help from the wife. They are bulky, that's for sure, but they only weigh about 100lbs tops.

So do you have 4 people that are going to cruise full time on this boat? Is that what you mean by "carry four people and see what happens?"

And... WOW! Those lagoon 420's are really 50,000lbs displacement?? And I thought cats were light. I sure am learning about cats. I don't know anything at all.

PS: Ahhh... didn't include my shore power cables under the "power cords" section. I should edit that.

Raven · 19-01-2007, 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssullivan

And... WOW! Those lagoon 420's are really 50,000lbs displacement?? And I thought cats were light. I sure am learning about cats. I don't know anything at all.

Out of curiosity, I looked up the specs for the 2007 Lagoon 420 (below).

Light displacement: 25,800 lbs
Max displacement (EEC) 31,800 lbs

dana-tenacity · 19-01-2007, 13:44

Rule of thumb, if you haven't used it in 12 months, toss it. I'd loosde the TV and the dinghy, replace it with a lightweight hard dinghy that rows superbly and has a sailing rig , but I don't expect you all to agree.
General observation is that over the last 10-15 years cruisers have added way way too much "stuff" to their boats with a negative effect on both safety and performance, as well as the need to replace/maintain, hence they hang around town moaning about doing maintenance or waiting for parts and not enjoying themselves.
Soory if that sounded like a rant, but go through that list really aggressively, ask yourself will I die without this? and see how little you really need.

19-01-2007, 04:34	#1
Joli Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,588	How much gear do you carry? There has been an interesting debate going on in the Lagoon 420 thread about the wright of the boat and it's load carrying ability. One side says light is better and carrying minimum gear is the best and you can still maintain speed. The other side argues the Lagoon is built to carry more payload and is heavier because of it and speed will be comparable to a similar sized mono. So what gear does everyone carry and what does it weigh? I'll start with our estimate for 4 people. Sails 1,000# Water, 300 gallons, 2400# Fuel, 200 gallons, 1600# Ground tackle, 400' of 3/8 high tensile, 400# 150' 1/2 BBB 200# 600' 3/6 3 strand, 200# 100# bruce 100# CQR 44# Danforth Extra sailing gear. blocks, winch handles, sheets 200# Power cords 300# Generaror in leau of wind or solar 300# Food, drinks 300# Extra batteries, 400# Auto Pilot 50# Dinghy, motor, fuel, no davits, deck stored. 600# Spares, and tools, 500# Charts, instruments, laptop 100# Books, 200# TV, DVD, 50# Clothing, olies. 300# Safety gear, harness, jacklines, flares, 200# Cleaning supplies. 100# Misc. 200# Us 700# Total, 10,550# but I probably missed some items. I can't think what could be removed to lighten the boat.

19-01-2007, 06:53	#2
cat man do Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched] Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered Posts: 2,251	Is this lb's Joli?, and if it is do you really carry 2 x 100lb, or 45 kg Anchor's. That a bloody big pick. from Lewmar CLAWRecommendations Boat Size :70-80 FT / 21.34-24.39M Standard Recommendation 0057950 CLAW (Galvanised) 50Kg/110Lbs CQRRecommendations Boat Size :70-80 FT / 21.34-24.39M Standard Recommendation 0056509 CQR Anchor (Drop Foed Galvanised) 34kg/75lb Lewmar did not have a listing for 100 ft craft, so could only find a 75 lb plough Dave __________________ "Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/

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19-01-2007, 09:11	#6
Tnflakbait Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Southern California Boat: CSK, 33' Aita Pe'ape'a Posts: 321	I agree, 100 pounds of cleaning supplies is crazy. You should pay attention to the weight regardless of the fact that a Lagoon is not a "fast" catamaran. You could still surf down a wave and bury the bows. 1000#s of sails? You also should be smart about the distribution of weight. Good luck. Keep her light, its how cats work.

19-01-2007, 09:12	#7
Tnflakbait Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Southern California Boat: CSK, 33' Aita Pe'ape'a Posts: 321	ps Solar or wind would be lighter than a generator. Use led lighting and carry less batteries. Good luck

19-01-2007, 09:33	#11
ssullivan Senior Cruiser Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,530	Also, did I read 1000# of sails? What are you guys using? My main and genoa only weigh (guesstimate) about 160lbs. That's all my sail weight. Even with a spinnaker, I don' t think sails would be 1000lbs. How many sails do you have? (Did I mention I'm envious?? ) I'll try filling out your form, even though for our boat it's probably different. We have a 45' mono with 26,000lbs displacement before all the crap goes in: Sails 160# Water, 140 gallons, 1167# Fuel, 55 gallons, 458# Ground tackle, 200' of 3/8 BBB, 300# 15' 1/2 BBB 20# 300' 3/6 3 strand, 100# 35# CQR 45# CQR ***We need more anchors Extra sailing gear. blocks, winch handles, sheets 200# Tools/spares 500# Power cords 15# Generaror in leau of wind or solar 200# Food, drinks 300# Extra batteries, 300# Auto Pilot 50# Dinghy, motor, fuel, on davits. 300# Charts, instruments, laptop 100# Books, 200# TV, DVD, 50# Clothing 100# Safety gear, harness, jacklines, flares, 200# Cleaning supplies. 20# (dirty sailors!) Misc. 200# Us 268# TOTAL = 4,688 lbs, new displacement is 30,688 lbs. Big difference, which also begs to ask the questions: What does this do to capsize screening ratios? Does having some or all of this weight below the waterline help? Is it vital to have it in the bilge, or is having it at least below the center of mass (with respect to a rolling boat) good enough? How does this affect draft? How will it affect performance and/or pitchpoling? Any naval architechts on the forum?

19-01-2007, 13:44	#15
dana-tenacity Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Whangaparaoa,NZ Boat: The Squid is launched and sailing Posts: 611	Rule of thumb, if you haven't used it in 12 months, toss it. I'd loosde the TV and the dinghy, replace it with a lightweight hard dinghy that rows superbly and has a sailing rig , but I don't expect you all to agree. General observation is that over the last 10-15 years cruisers have added way way too much "stuff" to their boats with a negative effect on both safety and performance, as well as the need to replace/maintain, hence they hang around town moaning about doing maintenance or waiting for parts and not enjoying themselves. Soory if that sounded like a rant, but go through that list really aggressively, ask yourself will I die without this? and see how little you really need.