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Old 19-01-2007, 17:24   #16
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Originally Posted by Joli
And if I could find a 176 lb bruce I would carry that also. It's good to park it at the end of a trip and sleep well. We also carry spare windlass gypsy's, motor, brushes, seals,,,,
Ask around the Oil Rig's, they may be able to help in your anchoring requirement's

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Old 19-01-2007, 17:36   #17
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Wow... so what boat do you have? She's got to be pretty good sized, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joli
We do not own a Lagoon. We own an old lead mine but carry what we need to run the boat. It works out to be 20% of displacment.

Sean, our main is spectra and our jib is two ply 9 oz. We use halyards to pull sails out of the sail locker. We can't lift them.

I asked the question about what people carry because some are comparing light ships to cruising weights. It is not a fair comparison.

Kevin mentioned max weight for a Lagoon 420 and you see 6k is the max they want you to carry. I would think that is a realistic number for a cruiser.
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Old 19-01-2007, 17:57   #18
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The question is what gear does everyone carry and what does it weigh?

Our estimate for 2 people and 1 large dog based on the format Joli started.

all measures in lbs.

Sails 750# [main, 2,3,staysail, storm sails, asymetrical]
Water, 140 gallons, 1120#
Fuel, 85 gallons, 680#
Ground tackle, 300' of 5/16 high tensile, 300#
150' 3/8 HT 200#
750' 3/4 maxibraid strand, 200#
60# CQR
25 # Fortress FX37
35# Fortress FX55
33# Spade A140
Extra sailing gear. blocks, winch handles, sheets 200#
Power cords 30#
Generator 300#
Food, drinks 300#
batteries, 400#
Auto Pilot 30#
Dinghy, motor, fuel, davits, deck stored. 275#
Spares, and tools, 500#
Charts, instruments, laptops 100#
Books, 100#
TV, DVD, 25#
Clothing, olies. 200#
Safety gear, harness, jacklines, flares, 200#
Cleaning supplies. 75#
Misc. 200#
Us 400#

Total, approx 7,000# but I probably missed some items.

That's based on a 30,000 lb boat or just over 20%. I'm seeing some consistency in load amount... interesting.
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Old 19-01-2007, 19:48   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon D
The question is what gear does everyone carry and what does it weigh?

Our estimate for 2 people and 1 large dog based on the format Joli started.

all measures in lbs.

Sails 750# [main, 2,3,staysail, storm sails, asymetrical]
Water, 140 gallons, 1120#
Fuel, 85 gallons, 680#
Ground tackle, 300' of 5/16 high tensile, 300#
150' 3/8 HT 200#
750' 3/4 maxibraid strand, 200#
60# CQR
25 # Fortress FX37
35# Fortress FX55
33# Spade A140
Extra sailing gear. blocks, winch handles, sheets 200#
Power cords 30#
Generator 300#
Food, drinks 300#
batteries, 400#
Auto Pilot 30#
Dinghy, motor, fuel, davits, deck stored. 275#
Spares, and tools, 500#
Charts, instruments, laptops 100#
Books, 100#
TV, DVD, 25#
Clothing, olies. 200#
Safety gear, harness, jacklines, flares, 200#
Cleaning supplies. 75#
Misc. 200#
Us 400#

Total, approx 7,000# but I probably missed some items.

That's based on a 30,000 lb boat or just over 20%. I'm seeing some consistency in load amount... interesting.
Thank you Jon. That is what I was trying to get to.

The guys in the Lagoon 420 thread were getting all kinds of grief over boat weight so I started this thread.

In reality, to cruise a boat you have to have the ability to carry gear. You can't compare a factory weight to a fully loaded cruising boat. And if yu have a light boat with a high SA/D it will take a huge dive when you add the stuff unless you are very carefull to keep weight off. Hard to do.

Count up all the stuff you carry, it's an eye opener.
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Old 19-01-2007, 19:57   #20
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Joli, I thought the thread was about carrying that much stuff/weight on a lagoon 420. You can carry much more on a monohull. A Lagoon with that much extra weight would be ridiculous and sail very poorly. (as they don't sail that well to start with) A displacement monohull can sail fine with extra weight. How much stuff you take along is really a matter of choice. You must be more careful with loading a cat. Some people need lots of stuff. Some don't.
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Old 19-01-2007, 21:08   #21
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Actually we are pretty careful about what we carry. The boat is outfitted for full time cruising and appropriate spares. I could probably loose maybe 1000 lbs if I really worked at it. But any more than that would get into the bone in terms of safety or live-ability. Besides most large cats I see out there have generators, fuel water, ground tackle, at least 3 sails, a battery bank, dink, spares, tools, food, that's the bulk of the weight.
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Old 20-01-2007, 03:57   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnflakbait
Joli, I thought the thread was about carrying that much stuff/weight on a lagoon 420. You can carry much more on a monohull. A Lagoon with that much extra weight would be ridiculous and sail very poorly. (as they don't sail that well to start with) A displacement monohull can sail fine with extra weight. How much stuff you take along is really a matter of choice. You must be more careful with loading a cat. Some people need lots of stuff. Some don't.
Good to see someone else with some real life experience making comment.

Dave
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Old 20-01-2007, 05:02   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnflakbait
Joli, I thought the thread was about carrying that much stuff/weight on a lagoon 420. You can carry much more on a monohull. A Lagoon with that much extra weight would be ridiculous and sail very poorly. (as they don't sail that well to start with) A displacement monohull can sail fine with extra weight. How much stuff you take along is really a matter of choice. You must be more careful with loading a cat. Some people need lots of stuff. Some don't.
Give us numbers. Tell us your displacement and SA/D

Sails
Water, gallons
Fuel, gallons
Ground tackle
Extra sailing gear. blocks, winch handles, sheets
Power cords
Generaror in leau of wind or solar
Food, drinks
Extra batteries
Auto Pilot
Dinghy, motor, fuel, no davits, deck stored
Spares, and tools,
Charts, instruments, laptop
Books,
TV, DVD,
Clothing, olies.
Safety gear, harness, jacklines, flares,
Cleaning supplies.
Misc.
Us
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Old 20-01-2007, 05:03   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do
Good to see someone else with some real life experience making comment.

Dave
You to Dave.

Give us numbers. Tell us your displacement and SA/D

Sails
Water, gallons
Fuel, gallons
Ground tackle
Extra sailing gear. blocks, winch handles, sheets
Power cords
Generaror in leau of wind or solar
Food, drinks
Extra batteries
Auto Pilot
Dinghy, motor, fuel, no davits, deck stored
Spares, and tools,
Charts, instruments, laptop
Books,
TV, DVD,
Clothing, olies.
Safety gear, harness, jacklines, flares,
Cleaning supplies.
Misc.
Us
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Old 20-01-2007, 05:36   #25
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I answered Joli's question on my first post to the thread. Anyone care to venture a guess as to the follow-on questions of how the weight affects performance in terms of capsize screening ratios, etc? Where it is best placed? etc?

And Joli: What kind of boat do you have? My boat and JonD's boat seem to be quite similar.
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Old 20-01-2007, 06:41   #26
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Working off of the sailing version numbers and the fact that the beam OA was 4 ft wider and had mast and rigging, but had 150 kg lighter diesel's we would feel that the actual weight of our cat will be at least 500 kg lighter than the lightship weight I have said below.

Powercat LOA 50ft 8 inches BOA 24 ft

Lightship [ empty] 4700kg 10360 lb

Loaded DWL 8500kg 18740 lb



Sails N/A
Water, gallons 600L 158 g
Fuel, gallons Max 2400L 634 g usual 1000L 264 gl
Ground tackle 55lb x 3 chain/rope 300kg 660lb
Extra sailing gear. blocks, winch handles, sheets 10kg 22lb
Power cords 5kg 11 lb
Generaror in leau of wind or solar 22kg 48lb
Food, drinks 50kg 110lb
Extra batteries 130kg 286 lb
Auto Pilot yes
Dinghy, motor, fuel, no davits, deck stored 130kg 286lb
Spares, and tools,including oil 100kg 210lb
Charts, instruments, laptop 30kg 66lb
Books, 50kg 110lb
TV, DVD, CD 20kg 44lb
Clothing, olies. 40kg 88lb
Safety gear, harness, jacklines, flares, 30kg 66lb
Cleaning supplies. 5kg 11lb
Misc. 100kg 220lb

us 200kg 440lb


On a Passage with full fuel load and all gear = 3958kg 8726lb

we will get lighter as fuel is used

this is 158kg over DWL displacement.

Coastal work fuel load and all gear = 2712kg 5979 lb

this is 1088kg 2399lb under DWL displacement

Note that this is on 50 foot hull's not 42 foot hulls

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Old 20-01-2007, 07:23   #27
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Dave, what are your fuel / speed stats? That boat seems very efficient from the stats you just posted.
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Old 20-01-2007, 09:47   #28
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A light cruising catamaran

My 33' LOA 14'6" Beam Choy/ Seaman /Kumalae Catamaran weighs 4010 pounds rigged with sails and 30 hp Tohatsu OB.

Sails 50# additional
Water 60 Gallons 480#
Fuel 25 Gallons 175#
Ground tackle 35# CQR 18# Danforth 90' 1/4" HT chain and line 170#
Extra sailing gear 25# (probably less)
Power cord 5#
Solar Panels 200 watts flexible 35#
Food Drinks 100#
Batteries (not extra) 200#
Tillerpilot 5#
Dinghy and Outboard 120#
Books 20#
Tv Dvd 5#
Clothing 50#
Safety gear 20#
Tools/ spares 40#
Cleaning supplies 5# maybe less
Misc. 200#
Us 360#


Some of these are exagerated numbers:
2045 pounds add on. I would be very concerned to add more than this on. My goal is really around 1500 pounds. It is tricky to get a small light boat like this outfitted without overloading. And yes I do believe it would increase the possibility of pitchpole dramatically if overloaded. With this load the boat EASILY sails at 15 knots in 15 knots true wind. And will do over 20 when asked politely. The boat surfs down waves then over the next one. If it was too heavy it might just slam into the next wave and stop. (Not good if you are going fast)
However this is not for everyone. The new large catamarans (often) are more like floating condos. They trade excess space for performance. To design a proper catamaran there are sacrifices that must be made. Its all comprimise. The interior of a Lagoon 420 belongs on a boat at LEAST 50' long.
Don't forget that people cross oceans in 8 foot boats (at one extreme).
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Old 20-01-2007, 10:22   #29
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Sorry, I haven't weighed anything.............
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Old 20-01-2007, 10:33   #30
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Diesel fuel weighs about 6 - 6.3 lbs per US gallon. Lot lighter than water.

Ditch the books and magazines. Get the electronic versions if possible. Remove the articles you like from the magazine and carry that.

Cut the number of tools I carry. Just one complete set of sockets and wrenches. Got an Aluminum Pipe wrench. Adjustable wrenches work pretty well to hold the other side of that bolt.

Watermaker reduced the amount of water I felt comfortable carrying.

Acrylic glassware. Plastic containers. Aluminum cookware.

Cleaning and refinishing chemicals! 100lbs easy

Composite propane tanks.

Plastic Jerry cans instead of permanate tankage. Easier to adjust weight for the need.

Portable gas generators are a LOT lighter than permanate Diesel generators.

Soft drink maker. Don't bring the canned soda with you, make it as you go.

Portable window airconditioners are lighter than the built-in and Cruise Aire systems.
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