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Old 29-09-2011, 12:53   #46
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Re: How Long Do Modern Sails Last ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by islandplanet View Post
Keith Lorance of Quantum on mitre cut and radial Dacron

I have a book excerpt with a quote from Tim Woodhouse (Hood Sails) that says essentially the same thing in regards to radial Dacron sails.
.
Am I right that both of those are dated from before the current North and Challenger radial cloths were commercialized? It seems that they have both solved the warp oriented weaving/loom problem.

The wastage in radial construction is certainly a fact, and basically an on-axis stretch vs cost trade-off.

I have seen some test data that indicated that the Hood Dacron cloth is significantly 'better' (for cross cut) because they were using old and slow looms that could weave really tightly - measurably more so than the faster looms used by the other Dacron manufacturers.

Cuban is spectra fibers, spread out to filiment level (rather than the normal multi-filiment yarn level) on mylar.

I think the answer back to the OP, is that NO, in the sailing market we have not recently seen our Dacron sails life span decline dramatically.
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Old 29-09-2011, 15:20   #47
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Re: How Long Do Modern Sails Last ?

Evans,

While the warp issue may be resolved (only time will tell), from what we've seen it's still not a good choice for a cruising sailor. You really need to get your hands on the cloth to get a feel for it. It's not a cruiser-friendly finish. What it does well is provide someone an option for radial construction if for some reason they don't want, or cannot take advantage of superior laminate products. Class rules excluding laminate cloth are a perfect example.

For a cruiser wanting a more stretch resistant solution than cross-cut Dacron, there are far better choices than radial Dacron construction. If budget allows, radial HydraNet is a great solution. We can build a great load path sail for less money than a radial Dacron sail. If we thought radial Dacron was a good solution for cruisers, we'd be promoting it. We just don't see an application for it in cruising applications for working sails.
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Old 29-09-2011, 16:07   #48
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Re: How Long Do Modern Sails Last ?

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You really need to get your hands on the cloth to get a feel for it. It's not a cruiser-friendly finish.
OK, I have not yet seen/felt any of the radial dacron cloth in person.
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Old 29-09-2011, 16:11   #49
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Re: How Long Do Modern Sails Last ?

My sailmaker said 7 years. Interestingly he said it would make little difference if I used them every day or hardly at all.
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Old 29-09-2011, 16:51   #50
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Re: How Long Do Modern Sails Last ?

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My sailmaker said 7 years. Interestingly he said it would make little difference if I used them every day or hardly at all.

So what type of trust did that result in?
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Old 29-09-2011, 18:39   #51
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Re: How Long Do Modern Sails Last ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by islandplanet View Post
Keith Lorance of Quantum on mitre cut and radial Dacron

Here's an article on the merits or lack thereof of using Dacron for radial construction. (...)
Now, this is what I believe the relevant quote from your link (correct me if I am wrong):

"...Dacron as a radial cut sail is generally inefficient due to the inherent weaving issues. It is simply not possible to achieve a strong warp in a Dacron sail. We tried it in the 80's with a little success, but not enough to overcome the added labor..."

Maybe this was in fact the case, in the 80'ies. But the 80'ies were like 30 years ago, and this is what North Sails has to say, today:

"... (we make radial cut sails) made using North's NorDac Radian warp-oriented woven polyester sail fabrics..."

This is what Doyle has to say now:

"... Doyle's QuickSilver made from Woven Warp oriented Polyester addresses the problems performance cruising sailors have had to live with.

LAMINATION = low durability, high replacement expense, mildew problems, and loss of sail shape.

Doyle's QuickSilver offers the low stretch of laminates with the durability of Dacron wovens. Finally, this is a performance fabric, that is not a copy of fabrics designed for race boats, but conceived specifically for high performance sailing where durability is valued. Additionally, because it is a woven fabric without any glue, mildew is not a problem.

Doyle's QuickSilver comes with a Three Year Guarantee. ..."

And a word from Qantum, A.D. 2011:

"... This is the bottom line. Warp and off-threadline (Bias) stretch is often sacrificed in less expensive woven polyester. This is the stretch that makes sails get too full (even when new), and which causes rapid deterioration in shape over time. It is particularly critical in cross cut sails because the panel layout can’t help keep loads on threadline...."

As for your opinion that "...the large brand names are marketing juggernauts..." I can only say that from my close and personal contact with one of the brand names I took a completely opposite impression: plenty of professionalism, plenty of hard work, newest technology, and always trying to deliver the best sail to the client.

Experiences differ. Opinions result i.a. from experiences.

Cheers,
b.
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Old 29-09-2011, 18:58   #52
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Re: How Long Do Modern Sails Last ?

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(...) We can build a great load path sail for less money than a radial Dacron sail. (...)
I sort of missed this point.

OK then, PLS send me a quote for a 22 sq m cruising (offshore) furling genoa with made in this technology. UV strip on foot and leech. No delivery, I will pick up at your place. Boat type Allegro 27.

Will you give me 3 years of warranty for it too?

I am planning to start another RTW in about a year, budget permitting.

It looks like you convinced me of sorts.

Cheers,
b.
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