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Old 11-01-2015, 16:34   #91
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Re: How Do You Determine If A Boat Is "Seaworthy"?

Jerseyjoe I agree to that point of few for basics.
That proofes the quality of the builder, the materials he uses and the tecnics applied and says very much about the filosphy of the company
When you buy a house you look at the major components: Roof, foundation, heating, plumbing, electric. Decor and accessories can be infinitely added on, removed or exchanged. Generally people do not buy a house with intention of redesigning the foundation or roof. Look at the boat itself. Construction, rigging, engine, electric, etc. The major components and if they fit your needs for desired use.

But there is another aspect
Using Your example with the house...the arquitect is responsable for the way You live in this house afterwards....no dirrect access door from the kitchen and You put Your beautifull expensive persian carpet at risk every time You must take the garbage bag through the living room.Another example is when there is more space used for the walk ways than for the rooms
This was not the fault of the builder
There are lots of nice looking houses out there. Great quality and they last forever but living in them might be a different story.
Good arquitects know how people live and how houses comunicate and built some nice walls around it
Others not so good ones also know, but nice optics sell better and they try to fit everything important afterwards
And the bad ones just give a shxx or donīt no better.
The bad thing is they get away with it

Lots of designers out there. Their boats are beautifull but have they ever experienced certain situation or just read a lot of books about them and a nice petigree on the wall ?
If You donīt built Your own boat You are forced to live with the consequences of the design of somebody else. and that may be every day for many days.

I would say itīs a good thing to know something about the filosophy of the designer and what itīs based on and hopefully You find some comun grounds even if itīs not a perfect match
Same parameters apply for the builders.... do they have to maintain afterwards or is that somebody elses job ?
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Old 11-01-2015, 17:09   #92
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Re: How Do You Determine If A Boat Is "Seaworthy"?

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Originally Posted by DefinitelyMe View Post
I may be a bit dated in my beliefs, but i'd say the closer you are to the top of this sequence of hull designs, the more seaworthy the boat is likely to be, and vice versa :-)
I can relate to that statement

Furthermore, when it comes to seaworthy many times I thought about this video. There is only a rudder that can go loose under the water line and considering how small the boat is.
How seaworthy is his concept ?
Looking at the history,MacGregor knows a lot about boats and production

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Old 12-01-2015, 06:26   #93
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Re: How Do You Determine If A Boat Is "Seaworthy"?

What the f.... you show us a Mcgregor 26 a hybrid between a power boat and a sailing vessel. Of course this construction is cripple. But I have to mention that McGregor produced really good Vessels abobe 50 ft
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Old 12-01-2015, 06:49   #94
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Re: How Do You Determine If A Boat Is "Seaworthy"?

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Originally Posted by warrior 90 View Post
I can relate to that statement

Furthermore, when it comes to seaworthy many times I thought about this video. There is only a rudder that can go loose under the water line and considering how small the boat is.
How seaworthy is his concept ?
Looking at the history,MacGregor knows a lot about boats and production

This video pops up occasionally. I don't know who titled it but I seriously doubt the winds were anywhere close to 50 mph. That wind speed would be a Force 9 or strong gale. Winds of that speed you will have breaking waves as high as 30', lots of spray and foam blowing across the surface of the water. What that video shows is not even close. I would guess maybe 25-30 mph at best.

Also, do not understand what you mean by "only a rudder that can go loose under the waterline". Could you explain please.
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Old 12-01-2015, 07:38   #95
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Re: How Do You Determine If A Boat Is "Seaworthy"?

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
This video pops up occasionally. I don't know who titled it but I seriously doubt the winds were anywhere close to 50 mph. That wind speed would be a Force 9 or strong gale. Winds of that speed you will have breaking waves as high as 30', lots of spray and foam blowing across the surface of the water. What that video shows is not even close. I would guess maybe 25-30 mph at best.

Also, do not understand what you mean by "only a rudder that can go loose under the waterline". Could you explain please.
42 mph with 51 mph gusts = 36.5 knots and 44.3 knots.

Beaufort 8 Gale,
fresh gale 62–74 km/h, 39-46 mph, 34-40 knots winds

5.5–7.5 m, 18-25 foot waves

Moderately high waves with breaking crests forming spindrift. Well-marked streaks of foam are blown along wind direction. Considerable airborne spray. Some twigs broken from trees. Cars veer on road. Progress on foot is seriously impeded.


Beaufort 9 Strong gale
75–88 km/h, 47–54 mph, 41–47 knot winds,

7–10 m, 23–32 ft waves

High waves whose crests sometimes roll over. Dense foam is blown along wind direction. Large amounts of airborne spray may begin to reduce visibility. Some branches break off trees, and some small trees blow over. Construction/temporary signs and barricades blow over.

Source Wikipedia

I'm with Robert - that seriously does not look like a Gale/strong Gale. I do see the twin gales flag warning in the video, but I doubt that is what they experienced.
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Old 12-01-2015, 15:00   #96
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Re: How Do You Determine If A Boat Is "Seaworthy"?

Gents I'm outa here. Useless tattle if you really relay on Miles or Kilometers. This is a cruisersformum so the measure is Nautical Miles and knots or Beaufort, depth is internationally meters, fathoms of feet.
cheerio
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Old 12-01-2015, 15:10   #97
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Re: How Do You Determine If A Boat Is "Seaworthy"?

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Gents I'm outa here. Useless tattle if you really relay on Miles or Kilometers. This is a cruisersformum so the measure is Nautical Miles and knots or Beaufort, depth is internationally meters, fathoms of feet.
cheerio
at least spell metres right willya !
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Old 12-01-2015, 16:29   #98
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Re: How Do You Determine If A Boat Is "Seaworthy"?

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Originally Posted by warrior 90 View Post
....
Lots of designers out there. Their boats are beautifull but have they ever experienced certain situation or just read a lot of books about them and a nice petigree on the wall ?
If You donīt built Your own boat You are forced to live with the consequences of the design of somebody else. and that may be every day for many days.
...
Yes, that's why all should design and build his own sailboat.
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Old 12-01-2015, 16:37   #99
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Re: How Do You Determine If A Boat Is "Seaworthy"?

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Yes, that's why all should design and build his own sailboat.
And then be forced to live with the deficiencies of my own designing and boatbuilding abilities every day? No thanks! I'd prefer to live with the deficiencies of the design of a great designer like Bill Dixon or German Frers or someone like that Polux is clearly more talented than I am Or at more confident
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Old 13-01-2015, 22:58   #100
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Re: How Do You Determine If A Boat Is "Seaworthy"?

Hey,
thatīs not what Iīm trying to say
I rather prefer not living with my design. There is no reason to invent the bycicle and the boat. They are around for a long time.


Iīm getting a little closer I guess.
I am starting to analize what real proven seaworthey boats have in comun besides the fact that they are finacially out of reach for me....at least new.
Afterwards I compare them with boats that are in my reach and see what the compromise looks like and what I could do with out.
What I mean by that is the fancy stuff is at the end of my list.
What I observe is... mass is critical...seems logical
You canīt choose the size of the waves but You have a choice with the size of the boat.
I observed that most of those aparent seaworthy cruisers 45 feet up have a totally different beheavier under the waterline. With 50 feet the boat seems to react quiete comfortable with bigger waves compared to 30 feet and this is not only a consequence of the hull design.

That has nothing to do with what certain boats can do or have done but in regards to seaworthy some boats just do it better and SAFER and size to me seems an important part.
Since I can not or donīt want to live without certain elements on board Obviously that determins the hull shape and design on a given size

Those two factors for me are basics regards to Seaworthy
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Old 14-01-2015, 05:03   #101
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Re: How Do You Determine If A Boat Is "Seaworthy"?

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42 mph with 51 mph gusts = 36.5 knots and 44.3 knots.

Beaufort 8 Gale,
fresh gale 62–74 km/h, 39-46 mph, 34-40 knots winds

5.5–7.5 m, 18-25 foot waves

Moderately high waves with breaking crests forming spindrift. Well-marked streaks of foam are blown along wind direction. Considerable airborne spray. Some twigs broken from trees. Cars veer on road. Progress on foot is seriously impeded.


Beaufort 9 Strong gale
75–88 km/h, 47–54 mph, 41–47 knot winds,

7–10 m, 23–32 ft waves

High waves whose crests sometimes roll over. Dense foam is blown along wind direction. Large amounts of airborne spray may begin to reduce visibility. Some branches break off trees, and some small trees blow over. Construction/temporary signs and barricades blow over.

Source Wikipedia

I'm with Robert - that seriously does not look like a Gale/strong Gale. I do see the twin gales flag warning in the video, but I doubt that is what they experienced.
And they say gusting up to 51mph and that means the max reported gust. That means the average wind should be about 41mph or less. That gives a F7/8. It does not look to me more than a F7. That boat, light as it is, it is carrying too much sail for being sailing in really strong winds.
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Old 14-01-2015, 05:12   #102
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Re: How Do You Determine If A Boat Is "Seaworthy"?

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And then be forced to live with the deficiencies of my own designing and boatbuilding abilities every day? No thanks! I'd prefer to live with the deficiencies of the design of a great designer like Bill Dixon or German Frers or someone like that Polux is clearly more talented than I am Or at more confident
At least I have made the preliminary designs for two cruising boats....but I have to add that in what regards building details and even hull fine design I was following or modifying existent hulls and that would be made under the supervision of the original designers and finished by them, both very experienced NAa

It would surprise you how close those designs were from the boats you would find perfect for bluewater sailing.
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Old 14-01-2015, 11:13   #103
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Re: How Do You Determine If A Boat Is "Seaworthy"?

Another thing that came to mind was getting pictures of the construction process of a boat.


Something like this shows you what's under the hood and how they construct their boats. This particular hull is cored, either balsa or PVC foam. If it's balsa, that could be bad. While providing a lightweight and rigid hull, if the skin is damaged, you could have a serious problem on your hands.

But this manufacturer infuses the hull in one resin shot, completely sealing every piece of balsa in the process. In the event of skin damage, water cannot penetrate the surrounding area. That's a nice thing to know when you have a cored hull.

However, these pictures are not easy to find.

I did find a video, from a well known manufacturer, showing the process of making the hull to inserting the bulkheads. I did not see longitudinal stringers, framing or floors in the hull prior to the bulkheads being added. This boat had a solid glass hull (below the waterline) with kevlar reinforcement in the bow. But if in fact there are only bulkheads to stiffen the hull, it would be enough for me to cross that boat manufacturer off my list.

Of course, like practically everything else in the world of sailboats, finding reliable information is a challenge.
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Old 14-01-2015, 11:34   #104
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Re: How Do You Determine If A Boat Is "Seaworthy"?

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.
But this manufacturer infuses the hull in one resin shot, completely sealing every piece of balsa in the process. In the event of skin damage, water cannot penetrate the surrounding area. That's a nice thing to know when you have a cored hull.
However, these pictures are not easy to find.
..
The pictures yes, but the information no. You have just to see if they say if the hull was vacuum infused. Some not very expensive production boats are. Normally they use epoxy resins on those hulls and that is also a big plus.
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Old 14-01-2015, 11:48   #105
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Re: How Do You Determine If A Boat Is "Seaworthy"?

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The pictures yes, but the information no. You have just to see if they say if the hull was vacuum infused. Some not very expensive production boats are. Normally they use epoxy resins on those hulls and that is also a big plus.
Which builders are using epoxy resins?? Tartan was and I know Hanse did as an option but I don't know if thats still available.
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