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Old 18-01-2016, 12:54   #16
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Re: How cold is too cold?

All it takes to keep an engine warm is a 100W light bulb, until the bulb burns out of course.
All I'd add is if you do add antifreeze to the fresh water tanks, add at least 5 gals as it has to have a strong concentration or something grows in it, and you have to run enough thru the hot water heater to protect it too.


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Old 18-01-2016, 14:52   #17
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Re: How cold is too cold?

I think the prblem is he is in Colorado and the boat is in South Carolina? Something like that.

It's 4:50 pm. Either he has talked the yard into something or not. Miller time.
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Old 18-01-2016, 14:56   #18
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Re: How cold is too cold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
All it takes to keep an engine warm is a 100W light bulb, until the bulb burns out of course.
All I'd add is if you do add antifreeze to the fresh water tanks, add at least 5 gals as it has to have a strong concentration or something grows in it, and you have to run enough thru the hot water heater to protect it too.


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Gee folks! Apparently us northerners who live in freezing climates don't know anything about freeze prevention I guess.
Spend hundreds of $$ on insulation & heaters.

Don't concern yourselves over the possibility of power failure,heater malfunction or running out of heater fuel. Note: my insurer doesn't allow any kind of heater aboard while boat is stored on hard.

Don't concern yourself about possible fire from defective heater,cords & plugs.

OR-drain the water & dump $20 worth of RV AF in the systems & no worries.

Tough decision eh?

Cheers/ Len
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Old 18-01-2016, 15:40   #19
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Re: How cold is too cold?

$20 worth of antifreeze is NOT AN ANSWER when the OP states they are nowhere near the boat. That antifreeze will not go out and install itself.


The line for double-espresso forms here please, drink up gentlemen.


That's why the OP asked about asking the yard to do something. Which is reasonable, since the yard caused the problem, it should be simple and reasonable enough for the YARD to either place heaters, or to winterize things. Given that "winterize" means "screw around with my engine" I think I'd personally prefer to have them plug in a couple of heaters and nicht gerfingerpoken der machinen! [sic]
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Old 18-01-2016, 15:44   #20
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Re: How cold is too cold?

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...since the yard caused the problem...
It is ultimately the owner's responsibility to see that, in his absence, the boat gets its needs met.
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Old 18-01-2016, 15:47   #21
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Re: How cold is too cold?

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
und nicht gerfingerpoken der machinen! [sic]



So funny.
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Old 18-01-2016, 18:53   #22
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Re: How cold is too cold?

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It is ultimately the owner's responsibility to see that, in his absence, the boat gets its needs met.
Right on Terra Nova, the owner is absolutely responsible for his own property. If it costs money to protect his boat through a cold stretch, so be it. If he wants compensation for such costs, that should be decided in a court of law if the yard will not accept responsibility.
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Old 18-01-2016, 19:20   #23
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Re: How cold is too cold?

I honestly think I must be nuts when reading some of these posts, that to me require nothing other then common sense. How much did you spend on your boat??? Oh geeze a phone call to the marina and telling them to winterize your boat will cost how much?? A few hundred so you can sleep at night and not have to worry for the entire winter if it gets cold again is worth how much to you? Why are you wasting time on here asking a question with such an obvious answer. Call the marina office and sleep well for the rest of the winter.
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Old 18-01-2016, 19:37   #24
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Re: How cold is too cold?

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Originally Posted by Clipper4730 View Post
They are trying to make it right but weather is not cooperating and she is not winterized, never thought we would be here this long. So the question is do we need to worry. The boat is in Charleston SC and the temps are forecast to drop into the twenties just for one night. We have a heater set up that comes on at 11pm and shuts off at 4am. The engine room panel is open all the doors inside are open, will this be good enough. We did not winterize the boat as we thought it would be back in the warm water and all would be good. We are not in near the boat and can't attend to her as closely as we would like.

Do y'all think we need to worry about frozen pipes etc. we have a monitoring system on board and can monitor the temps just not sure if we should get the yard to set the heater up for continuous operation.
I'm from the north. Boat and I are in Savannah GA, and she's spending the winter in the water, which is 50 degrees F right now. I'm living aboard, so the interior of the boat has to be 70 degrees F. There's one 1500 watt space heater running on a thermostat heating the boat. It brings the temperature up 30 F degrees compared to the outside--when it's 35 degrees outside it's 65 inside. This works out well because the colder temperatures (tonight it's going down to 25) are at night and I have a big fluffy sleeping bag--good sleeping weather.

Note that the engine compartment, water and holding tanks only have to be above 32 degrees.

Do you need to worry? I think the boat will be all right. You only need to keep the inside temperature above 32 degrees. You don't need to worry about frozen pipes. But yes, ask the yard to adjust the timer so the heater is on from 11 pm till 7 am, and casually monitor the temperature.

Two more things. Put the heater out in the middle of the floor, away from woodwork. It's my experience that then if it fails it'll just sit there and won't bother anything. And next time use a yard in Savannah or Georgetown.
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Old 18-01-2016, 21:58   #25
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Re: How cold is too cold?

No need to worry ,something usually breaks from freezing when the water is trapped. Anything that has a hose attached to anything will be fine . It would take a week of freezing weather to freeze to the point of damage. In frozen houses pipes usually split at the elbows and in the middle of a long straight run. My 20 gal tank on my outdoor sauna freezes solid and goes down to twenty below regularly. I just leave a piece of wood like a baseball bat in the water and never had a problem with ice breaking anything. I wouldn't hurt to keep a gal or two of Propylene Glycol (Enviro safe) for when you feel you need it. Good Luck
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Old 18-01-2016, 23:42   #26
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Re: How cold is too cold?

While the general message is sound, the procedural advice is not so good. Recommendations in red.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dymaxion View Post
Why take the chance when $20 in RV antifreeze, $10 in engine AF, and a couple of hours would put your mind at rest.

Drain the fresh water tank(s) completely, pour in a gallon of RV antifreeze and run the system pump(s) until it gets to each tap.

Never put glycol in fresh water tanks, it is near impossible to completely get out.

Instead:

1. Bypass and drain water heater. (Blow it out with compressed air.)
2. Pump out the freshwater tank(s).
3. Disconnect the pump inlet hose, and dunk in a bucket of propylene glycol.
4. Open each faucet in turn until the glycol runs solid pink.
5. Keep running until the glycol reads good for - 50C.

Similar procedure for refrigeration and AC pumps. (Be sure to drain seawater filters, first.)


Flood the toilet bowl and pump a few strokes to push AF into lines.

This will only winterize the pump discharge.

1. Pump out the waste tank.
2. Disconnect the inlet line and dunk in a bucket of propylene glycol.
3. Flick the lever to wet bowl mode.
4. Pump in the glycol until it runs solid pink and keep going to pump lots through the plumbing and into the waste tank.


For the engine, open the inlet through hull and take the top off the raw water filter. Pour a bit of engine coolant in to flood the piping then close the through hull. With a gallon of engine coolant in hand, start the engine and keep pouring coolant into the raw water filter until it's spraying out the exhaust pipe and overboard.

Never use engine coolant in the seawater system.

1. Check the engine coolant level and strength is good for -50C.
2. Supply fresh water to seawater pump and start engine to bring up to temperature so thermostat opens.
3. Shut down engine.
4. As an alternative to 2 & 3, remove thermostat(s).
5. Open seawater strainer, engine, and muffler water drains.
6. Disconnect seawater intake and dunk in a bucket of PROPYLENE glycol.
7. Start engine and run until exhaust liquid runs solid pink.
8. Check sample of exhaust liquid to ensure it is good for -50C.


Remember, hot air rises, so no matter what the heater is doing, the last place to get heat is the bilges, where your tanks are located. The yard should pump out the holding tank on their dime. Lastly dump some RV AF into the bilge and run the bilge pumps. Skip this if you're lucky enough to have a dry bilge.

Pull the bilge pumps out of the bilges. (If water accumulates, and the RV antifreeze is diluted, the pumps may be damaged.)

One frozen and split water pump will cost you more money and effort to fix than all of the above.
Regarding using a heater, check your marina regs and boat insurance policy. Both usually prohibit leaving unattended heaters aboard. You will also be susceptible to damage during a power outage. Do not use a heater if you have propane or gasoline aboard. If you cannot winterize with antifreeze, and you can use a heater, use an oil filled radiant type, and a separate circulation fan to move air throughout the boat. Ensure all compartments that need heating are open.

During above procedures, always collect glycol from exhaust and drains, and dispose responsibly.

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Old 19-01-2016, 07:06   #27
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Re: How cold is too cold?

I would put a light bulb (it is easy to see when it is on and likely will not trip the breaker or burn down the boat)under anything that might still have water in it. Also close off any air entry points. It is 27 degF here in Little River (2hours north of your boat) geeze I feel for you.
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Old 19-01-2016, 07:51   #28
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Re: How cold is too cold?

RV antifreeze is intended for potable water systems, is there a problem if its not completely out during spring prep? I use bleach to sterilise the tanks too if needed, same idea, just flush it a few times before topping the tank for use.

No engine coolant in seawater system? I'll need the reason why before I buy this. Tx.
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Old 20-01-2016, 10:33   #29
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Re: How cold is too cold?

Responses in red

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dymaxion View Post
RV antifreeze is intended for potable water systems, is there a problem if its not completely out during spring prep?

Propylene glycol can leave a foul taste in the water if not completely removed. It takes many, many flushings to dilute it to point of not being able to taste it. The flushings take far more time than just disconnecting the potable water pump inlet.

I use bleach to sterilise the tanks too if needed, same idea, just flush it a few times before topping the tank for use.

Bleach does not eliminate propylene glycol.

No engine coolant in seawater system? I'll need the reason why before I buy this. Tx.



1. Ethylene glycol is more expensive.
2. Using Ethylene glycol for this purpose is illegal is some places.
3. Ethylene glycol poses a much higher environmental / accidental poisoning risk.

Why use ethylene glycol when much lower cost propylene glycol will suffice?
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Old 20-01-2016, 13:14   #30
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Re: How cold is too cold?

Just to be clear, if you've got regular anti-freeze and run it through the heat exchanger and exhaust system, no harm is done to the system is it?

It would be responsible to catch the exhaust in a bucket and make sure a cat, dog, etc does not drink it, and do that again in the spring to make sure none gets in the water - but you are not saying it hurts the engine, right?
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