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Old 03-02-2011, 15:07   #16
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Ok, I thought that might be what it was but I googled Simpson Gear and got nothing like that. Where does one find one of these?
I only the name from reading about them. I've been unable to find them too. It seems like a good idea though.
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Old 03-02-2011, 15:17   #17
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I think the inflation bags were as much about displacing water as providing flotation - I thik still a valid idea, especially if used in conjuction with collision / watertight bulkheads and compartments so that not relying on a single overall solution - whether bag or collision mat or whatever. Even a sail bag full of fenders in a compartment would serve a purpose especially if a bit of forethought involved.(half a cupboard full of water is better than 100%!.........especially if that's it).

Can't say I worry too much about sudden sinking (then again I am on dry land ) - but I would not wish to be relying solely on fixing a hole (from outside and / or inside). Would want to also contain the problem to buy me time to close the hull breach (as they say on Star Trek )........even if the price of that is more water onboard than I would normally like..........but if I am not actually sinking then I could live with a wet bum
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Old 03-02-2011, 15:17   #18
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kevlar epoxy

if the poster is planning to go up to the ice in a normal production sailing boat i would suggest that the most cost effective solution would be to protect the area about a foot above the waterline and a foot below,externally by adding several layers of kevlar cloth,epoxyied to the outer hull.

this can be achived by grinding back the gel coat,applying matting and vacume bagging then infusing with epoxy resin.

then you have effectively the properties of steel at the waterline.

a water tight bow locker would also be a good idea.
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Old 03-02-2011, 15:35   #19
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Flotation devices would probably fill the whole interior of the boat on a typical monohull sailboat. The only way to get around this would be a total redesign of the interior of the boat around the flotation device so it's deployment would still allow some below decks living space.
An Etap is said to be an unsinkable boat. This is b/c it has expanding foam on the inside of the hull. I am thinking that you could fill certain areas of the boat and prevent it from sinking but you might not have much waterline. Does anyone have any idea how to figure what you would need to provide flotation for a Hallberg Rossy 31 as the OP has 4200 kg displacement.

Here is a link: http://www.glen-l.com/weblettr/weble...flotation.html I'm too busy at work to figure this out.

Another option would be those air filled bags that they use for lifting buildings etc. I don't know what they are called.

Ok my second editHere is a link to salvage tubes. You could put these inside the boat or tie them to the keel so they ride along side. That would give you an additional amount of float so you have more time to fix the hole. Have you read Hal Roths book two against Capehorn? He holes his boat.
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Old 03-02-2011, 15:43   #20
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An Etap is said to be an unsinkable boat. This is b/c it has expanding foam on the inside of the hull. I am thinking that you could fill certain areas of the boat and prevent it from sinking but you might not have much waterline.
Get it wrong and all you have is a serious hazard to navigation!
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Old 03-02-2011, 15:44   #21
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there is a foam in a can product, marketed under different names, but homedepot has it as GREAT STUFF


I would think this stuff is invaluable onboard... it cures under water.

any comments??
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Old 03-02-2011, 15:46   #22
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Why not just steel-clad the hull if you are going to go to all the trouble of laying on layers of kevlar? I can imagine strips bolted on would be pretty bombproof, but maybe leaky.
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Old 03-02-2011, 15:47   #23
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Sorry here is the link Lift Bags Salvage Tubes
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Old 03-02-2011, 16:06   #24
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steel cladding

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Why not just steel-clad the hull if you are going to go to all the trouble of laying on layers of kevlar? I can imagine strips bolted on would be pretty bombproof, but maybe leaky.
steel cladding was quite common on wooden fishing boats working the ice,but weight and fastening to 4" thick planks was not an issue.....
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Old 03-02-2011, 16:07   #25
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there is a foam in a can product, marketed under different names, but homedepot has it as GREAT STUFF


I would think this stuff is invaluable onboard... it cures under water.

any comments??
What about expanding foam for emergency use only? - into a sailbag or bin liner (already placed in the affected compartment ). wouldn't be worried about long term life, just that doesn't soak up water like a sponge??
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Old 03-02-2011, 16:09   #26
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We discussed adding Kevlar to our glass boat to protect it from Ice. There was a New Zealander who went thru the NW passage in two weeks in a Kevlar yacht. it had a lifting keel to deal with the numerous shoals and I would assume they added a little bit of kevlar for the road around the main impact areas. But Kevlar is a great impact medium (used in bullet proof vests, formula one chassis etc) as it has a small amount of flexibility (when compared with carbon fibre) and this is part of the reason it can take an impact. It would be simple to add to the outside of the hull (a foot or two above the waterline all around the bow and most of the forward underwater sections. Kelvar is fairly easy to work with so if you are doing this boat on a budget and you can access some land space then a husband/wife team could easily do this work.
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Old 03-02-2011, 16:22   #27
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foam floats

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What about expanding foam for emergency use only? - into a sailbag or bin liner (already placed in the affected compartment ). wouldn't be worried about long term life, just that doesn't soak up water like a sponge??
the problem with expanding polyeurathane foam, is
a) it floats ,so would force its way to the surface in a locker full of water and
(b) it is very heat sensetive,at 0-6 degrees c chemical reaction would be exteremly slow and exit canister as a liquid,and probably take 20 mins to expand if at all.
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Old 03-02-2011, 17:39   #28
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They have been sold in the past but not sure if they are still on the market. Sounds like a good idea but I think the problem was that the volume required to offset the weight of the keel and a boat filled with water pretty much filled all below decks space. Also they were costly, need large compressed air tanks so used up a lot of room and added a good bit of weight of their own.
They were called Yacht Savers. I Googled them and read that they have been out of biz for a while apparently. Some comments on them here.

[MHml] Sinkability - yachtsaver bag
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Old 03-02-2011, 18:10   #29
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Steel or alloy hull is a good idea.

Thick GRP is fine and can be made stronger with some materials laminated outside the prone ideas.

I think double hull (like in a Sadler or Etap) is very good. Then also watertight bulkheads (like in Amel). Double bottom is a good idea (say with water or fuel tanks in the space).

Once the damage is done I would bet my money on super duper bilge pumps.

If conditions are OK and it is safe to do so you can jump overboard and plug the breach from the outside. If conditions are not safe to be overboard, you will have to make sure the boat is very accesible from the inside - no laminated furniture, etc..

If the risk of puncture is too high, then the boat you have is probably not up to the job. Find a stronger one for the project.

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Old 03-02-2011, 18:32   #30
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HR Monsun? VERY nice boat.

You will be able to modify a lot adding watertight bulkheads, etc.. Very good bilge, great space for pumps - you can have a couple of them.

Probably think some protection round the prop so that ice chunks will be less likely to get into the prop.

Minimise the number of thru hulls - they do get pushed in by ice at times.

Have seen pictures of a Monsun in ice once before - probably Patagonien.

Big Adventure! I will (virtually) follow!

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