Homemade snorkel-bellows diving apparatus for hull cleaning

[JayH]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

As for need for a demand-style regulator... if the hose was able to resist being crushed, would the air inside even be compressed? Remember my idea was that it would be remain open at one end, so it's not quite the same as the diving bell concept where the air is pumped down and trapped under pressure. Here the diver would just be taking breaths from the air in the hose as it is "passing by" on its way from the foot-pump, first down and then back up, and out the open end.

Even if the hose could resist the pressure, your chest couldn't displace the surrounding water to draw air from the hose. The air has to be pressurized. Try it with 2-3 feet of hose or pipe. You can't inhale. Even hanging vertically in the water using a normal snorkel you can feel the effect.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Then you must realize how ridiculous your first post must sound to people familiar with scuba.

Fair enough, but I'm learning from and enjoying the conversation regardless...

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by JayH

Even if the hose could resist the pressure, your chest couldn't displace the surrounding water to draw air from the hose. The air has to be pressurized. Try it with 2-3 feet of hose or pipe. You can't inhale. Even hanging vertically in the water using a normal snorkel you can feel the effect.

Ah yes this makes sense. This is the dealbreaker I hadn't thought of.

[Juho]

Some more old "before SCUBA" technology, a calfskin suit from the 18th century, and its replica.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf-_K7BbHww

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoMZoBdgEPk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMitKdwF9fA

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

Ah yes this makes sense. This is the dealbreaker I hadn't thought of.

No, your plan would work, the pump pressurizes the air, the open end of the hose would be at the pressure of water at that depth, for example at approx 33', the air pressure in the hose is about 15 PSIG at the surface and 0 PSIG at depth.
I'm not saying its viable though, I do not believe it is.
Sort of like if you took an airplane propeller and connected it to your Diesel instead of the prop in the water, it would work, but there are all sorts of reasons why the prop in the water is better.

You can knock out your own safe Hooka for less than you think, I think MarkJ did that here and posted a parts list? I would not go for one of those "vibrator" air compressors though, the noise from those things drives me nuts.
My Father called them vibrators from the way they move themselves around on the floor, and the name stuck with me.

[Steadman Uhlich]

To JUHO:
That leather diving suit is interesting.
Please post that video in the following thread which is about Odd, Old, and Unusal Things..

Odd, Old, Obscure or Mysterious Nautical Things and Boats - Page 5 - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

[sailm8]

How do the mermaids at Wichee Wachee springs use the air hoses they breath through? It's just a hose that is bubbling air. When they need air they exhale and take a hit from the hose. They are in 10 or 12 feet of water.

[Valmika]

Originally Posted by JayH

Even if the hose could resist the pressure, your chest couldn't displace the surrounding water to draw air from the hose. The air has to be pressurized. Try it with 2-3 feet of hose or pipe. You can't inhale. Even hanging vertically in the water using a normal snorkel you can feel the effect.

You would have pressure in the hose at least on the down-stroke of the bellows. That's why you would have to coordinate your breathing with the pumping

[fatherchronica]

I remembered after I posted that a few years ago I was looking around at stupid boat things, like weedeater outboards, on Youtube, and came across a bunch of videos of homemade 2 liter Pepsi bottle scuba tanks.

[Juho]

Ok, done.

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

To JUHO:
That leather diving suit is interesting.
Please post that video in the following thread which is about Odd, Old, and Unusal Things..

Odd, Old, Obscure or Mysterious Nautical Things and Boats - Page 5 - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

[Offshore454]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

OP,

Please take a scuba lesson, then buy or make a Hookah system before you kill yourself trying to save a few bucks. Believe it or not, breathing compressed air five feet down, holding your breath and surfacing can kill you. It's NOT the same as taking a deep breath from the surface.

Your "plan" sounds like a great way to end up on that TV show "A Thousand Ways To Die."

Very good advice! The compressor idea has one other dangerous flaw. It doesn't take a lot of contamination in compressed air to poison you. Compressors made to fill scuba tanks have serious filters.
Your ideas would probably work fine, but why risk your life. For the record, I'm a PADI Dive Master..

[RaymondR]

I made a hookah using an auto reciprocating compressor and the mouthpiece from a scube. the refrigeration oil was well flushed from the compressor and replaced with the stuff they use in hookah compressors and I built a cooler/filter from SS tube. The filter elements were a stacked sandwich of felt and fine SS mesh disks in the central tube of the cooler.


The compressor hung under the boats 3 GM30 engine with the electric clutch controlled by a pressure switch.


We tested it by running it for about a half hour then placing very clean, white cloth over the discharge hose and blowing through it for about fifteen minutes then checking for oil blow through of residues on the cloth. Relied upon our noses for air quality checks and put it to use cleaning the boat.


It was also very handy for using with pneumatic tools for the maintenance of the boat and these will work underwater if required and a re safe in a wet environment.


The only problem we had with it was that the steel and alloy parts in the air end would corrode from moisture in the air.


I used it for about three years before removing it as the corrosion problem appeared intractable.


As previous posters have said and shown from historical data, there is nothing technically wrong with your scheme.

[wsmac]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Then you must realize how ridiculous your first post must sound to people familiar with scuba. Jeez, just go down to the Home depot and get yourself one of these for about $90, oilless.

Actually those of us (actually just my own self) who have SCUBA training/experience AND Commercial Diving training/experience didn't find the first post ridiculous at all.

When did SCUBA training start including information about surface-supplied air?
Especially along the lines of what the OP is asking about?

It has been done, it could be done, but I prefer diving off a tank or purpose-built compressor unit even when cleaning hulls.

Like others have mentioned... you need someone up top tending your air supply.
You need to factor in the amount of air you want/need, the inner diameter and length of the hose you plan on using, and the internals of the regulator you plan on using.

Your regulator has to be setup to allow you to draw a breath on whatever air pressure your topside system offers you.
Your hose will add resistance via the inner diameter and length.
Will your Tender on top be pumping into a reservoir or shooting air straight to you?

In my personal opinion, taking a SCUBA class is overkill for hookah diving for small boat hull cleaning.
If you were to be diving on large boats/ships, using hull cleaning machines, using surface-supplied air and carrying a bailout bottle, or using a SCUBA setup... then yeah, I could see the benefit of a SCUBA class.

Points for safety concerns...
1. You may think you are only diving, say, 5 feet max... but what if you drop something you really really want to recover?
How far down and how long under will you be when trying to recover that item?

2. If your boat is at a marina... what are they going to say if they see some guy pumping a bellows on the dock with a hose heading into the water? How about when they ask "what the heck are you doing?" and the Tender says, "I have a diver down!" lol

3. I doubt you will get a foot operated pump to manage your air requirements.
Even one of those large volume raft hand pumps couldn't keep up with your rate and volume of breathing... let alone offer enough pressure to let you operate your 2nd stage. But I have no proof of that... it's just my opinion

You can use a dive tank for small boats.
With an 80, you can use just your 1st stage with a long LP hose to your 2nd stage (which is just your normal SCUBA setup).
You can either use a float with the tank (be sure to tie it off to the boat, and flag it for others to see), or secure it to the dock/deck.
Keep a pressure gauge on your 1st stage... but you would have figured that right?

There are several compressor units available. I just ordered this one because I'm going to get back into hull cleaning for some extra money...
Hookah direct drive scuba diving equipment sales. Hose diving hookah

There's the Brownies kit, O'Keefe Engineering (Gold Dredgers fav' place for gear, I hear)
Air Compressor Systems: Keene Engineering Online
E150A Grab-N-Go Electric System

You might be able to find Hookah Specific classes close enough to you... but since you say you are SCUBA cert/exp already, then hopefully you'll just need to familiarize yourself with the new equipment and be safe when below.

Tether every tool... wrist strap, float (if only to slow it's descent)

Take some time to learn about the various hull coverings and read through the "BMP's for In-Water Hull Cleaning"
https://aquariusyacht.com/PDF/compre...-3-14-2012.pdf

That's my take on it... YMMV...

[wsmac]

One more thing....

When I was attending the College of Oceaneering in Wilmington, CA back in the 80's, I also worked parttime cleaning boat hulls in the area.
I worked for someone else and used the equipment he supplied.
My air supply was from a Sears Oil-less paint compressor.... it sucked worse than I did!
I didn't like the quality of air I was getting.. but being in my 20's and knowing I was smarter than the average commercial diver instructor... and INVINCIBLE!... I kept at it until I found something better... scanning photographs for bib numbers of marathon runners for a professional photographer! lol

My point is... personally I would not use anything other than a compressor/tank unit that was specifically built for surface supplied air diving.
Just my preference... and probably any health insurance company's also?

If you DO go about buying some oil-less compressor from some hardware store to dive on.... you might consider getting a heat hose, and if using an ICE to drive the compressor... perhaps also a snorkel for your intake.

[Hoodsail]

Bernard Moitessier built such a device using 2 - 4 gallon, inverted drums attached by a hose. the "diver" inhaled air thru a hose in the lower most drum. After 4 attempts, Bernard's companion stayed under water for 20 minutes before surfacing. See his book "Sailing to the Reefs". gotta love the ingenuity.