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Old 17-03-2015, 11:36   #16
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Re: Help - Passage planning, getting stuck

As a delivery skipper having done the passage from Tortola through the canal and up the coast to Washington, I wouldn't be keen to do it again unless I was paid a lot. It is a miserable trip from Panama north. Trucking it from TX or Dock Express would make your life a whole lot easier. Then, when you have more time or have finally decided to take off and go cruising you get to do the trip the preferred direction, south! Of course, even that way should happen at the right time of the year, too. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
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Old 17-03-2015, 17:13   #17
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Re: Help - Passage planning, getting stuck

Thanks all. A few people suggested Panama as a stop. I had only looked at the marinas at the canal entrance which did not look good. Did some more digging and found there is a place run by cruisers here tabogaislandmoorings at gmail.com that is just a few miles from the canal that can look after here till after the hurricane season so that's the next. Then we have to decide definitely on whether to do Panama - Mexico, Frisco or one trip via Hawaii. Via Hawaii means can't leave till spring and is going to be a lot longer than Ideal. Frisco with a stop at the S end of of the peninsula should go in two hops of 8 weeks, just need to be north of LA before May. I know the coast route has all the problems of adverse winds but logistics are much easier than 6000 miles+ in one go. Having done winter deliveries Gib to the UK I have an idea of what it means but if anyone has actually done the route would be interested in seeing your timings. Particularly if you have done it as a delivery.
Trucking quotes were $15K plus and she is a classic wooden boat, the vibrations on a truck for a long trip are very bad for them. Selling her is also not an option. Apart from having spent several years refitting her to be exactly what I want and then all the memories of live-aboard life a replacement would be around 100K+ for something steel or fiberglass to a similar spec. Selling such a specialist boat would also be next to impossible in that area. Anyway I have already sailed her from the UK, seems daft to stop now. The other thing is that I really want to sail the Pacific ocean, way pay other to do something I love!
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Old 18-03-2015, 05:54   #18
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Re: Help - Passage planning, getting stuck

Quote:
Originally Posted by gah964 View Post
first mistake leaving in July, second a decent engine. I would want a great engine not a decent one, and no time stamps. This is why you are stuck.
....and related big mistake is combining boats and tight schedules...this is already causing you (OP) to contemplate bad decisions like embarking on a significant journey in hurricane season.

I suggest taking a step back and reconsidering your whole strategy here.
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Old 18-03-2015, 08:08   #19
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Re: Help - Passage planning, getting stuck

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
....and related big mistake is combining boats and tight schedules...this is already causing you (OP) to contemplate bad decisions like embarking on a significant journey in hurricane season.

I suggest taking a step back and reconsidering your whole strategy here.
Thanks, somewhat stating the obvious but that is exactly what I am doing here. two (or more) heads are better than one.
Looking now like Panama as first leg, N Mexico as second in Nov/Dec, Frisco as third in spring and final lrg in summer weather. Much harder trips than the Hawaii option but doable. Hawaii was OK as two legs but just too long to be away to do it in one go all the way to Canada, would need 6 months off. Would love to but... Hardest leg looks like Mexico/SF and there is a choice between motoring all the way up the coast or heading out in the hope of sailable wind, probably close hauled, good job I am not a gentleman! Also going to need to buy some jerri cans! going to be a proper delivery trip, reminds me of the run up from Med to UK only 3 times as long!
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Old 18-03-2015, 09:07   #20
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pirate Re: Help - Passage planning, getting stuck

Flysi... where are you.. someone needs your Panama-Mexico experience on ports and conditions...
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Old 18-03-2015, 09:55   #21
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Re: Help - Passage planning, getting stuck

" Hardest leg looks like Mexico/SF and there is a choice between motoring all the way up the coast or heading out in the hope of sailable wind, probably close hauled, good job"

If that is what you have gotten out of the dozens of messages in other threads about the Panama to Flattery trip - then you need to really re-think your whole decision making process.

Cabo to Pt Conception (950 NM) is the most consistently annoying leg (NW 10 - 15 knots every day noon to 9 PM) BUT

Pt Reyes to Cape Blanco (340 NM) is the most dangerous (July - September NW 35 - 45 knots and 18' short period breaking seas at least twice a month)

In regard to finding sailable winds off Baja when headed northbound. I posted several detailed messages about the odds of that based on Pilot Chart wind roses - those messages were in another thread last week.

Offshore From Cabo to San Diego - Clipper Route

Going 500 - 700 miles west from Cabo and trying to ride the NE winds north will give you apparent winds greater than 60 degrees off the bow less than 20% of the time. A friend took a Swan 50 something out there to try to sail north at the same time we took my brothers Tartan 42 up the coast. Both boats are very good upwind boats and we had a lot of very nice sails. The Swan had to sail because of a shortage of fuel.

Our coastal route took 14 very tiring days with a lot of 2-day layovers waiting for the NW wind and swell to lay down. The Swan took 22 days sailing hard on the wind every inch of the way.

Few sailboats can make fast progress into the prevailing 4' - 5' swell coming from the NW. The boat has to climb up and over each swell coming by every 10 to 12 seconds.

If you spend some time searching these forums you will find dozens of very detailed answers to your questions from a lot of folks who've spent a lot of time along the US West Coast. I've made four trips from the PNW to Cabo and beyond and a close friend has done it three times. I've made two trips from Cabo to San Diego. My friend and I have shipped three of our boats back to the PNW via truck, Dockwise, Dockwise. We chose not to waste the time pounding north and did not want to subject the boats to that stress.

You mention a wood boat and suffering on a truck. How will that boat do pounding directly into a 4' to 5' swell and chop backed by a consistent 10 to 15 knot wind for over 4,000 miles? Will your boat be better off after that 1,000 hour ordeal?

I have some detailed analysis of the time, cost, fuel, food, marina costs of getting from Puerto Escondido, the one NW of the Tehuantepec, to Victoria/Vancouver. The time and cost will shock you. If you put together a detailed cost spread sheet you will find it much cheaper to ship the boat via Houston. Or - I will be glad to share them with you.
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Old 18-03-2015, 10:24   #22
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Re: Help - Passage planning, getting stuck

Now - on a positive note

A friend purchased a very nice Hylas 42 in San Francisco and wanted to take it to th e Pacific NW. They sat in a marina for three weeks until they got a good weather window and they sailed NW. They made it in 7-days and had good S and SE sailing winds almost all the way. But, the three week wait cost them $1,500 in transient dock fees.

I just met a skipper who brought a 40' catamaran up to San Diego from Cabo San Lucas. He only needed 5-days to make the trip and sailed every inch of the way. He waited for that weather window in Cabo for two weeks at a cost of $1,400.

On the other hand - we met a gentleman sailing a Swan 50 something from SF to the San Juans. He was in Newport, Oregon with a blown out main, genoa, and his dodger had been torn off.

In Coos Bay, Oregon while headed south in early September we met a Defever 49 headed north. They had no port side pilot house door, which had been carried away by a breaking wave near Cape Arago.

You can make the trip from San Diego to Cape Flattery very comfortably if you have the time to be patient and the money to sit in marinas and wait. There are very few anchorage where you can sit for no cost and are protected from the NW swell and wind. Once north of San Luis Obispo, California, the only secure anchorages I have used are at Drakes Bay and Bodega Bay, California and Port Orford, Oregon. Once north of there you are pretty much committed to spending money on transient docks.
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Old 18-03-2015, 11:06   #23
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Re: Help - Passage planning, getting stuck

Reading all the Horror Stories about long lay overs on transit docks, again I say look at DOCKWISE YACHT TRANSPORT. It may cost more to start with, up front, it will still save you in the long run. No decommissioning and Re-commissioning Costs, No Rough Roads, Minimal Drying Out(If any), and 20-30 day transit time (I got my boat in less than 30 days Ft Lauderdale to Vancouver, BC.). And if your boat qualifies, you may be able to travel with her... And one more thing, you may not be able to make the Trip as fast as you Plan. I remember from my early days with the USCG we searched for a Schooner that was 90+ days overdue coming out of Panama, and found her still south Ensenada, MX. I learned a long time ago that when you plan on sailing, Wind and Sea, frequently conspire against you...
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Old 18-03-2015, 11:09   #24
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Re: Help - Passage planning, getting stuck

Going from San Francisco to PNW:

http://georgebenson.us/

Cruising World published an article called the Baja Dash some years ago, same concept.

Frisco is in Texas.

Your timing and plans are all wrong, you can't sail on that kind of schedule.

Truck the boat. Or Dockwise.
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Old 18-03-2015, 15:44   #25
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Re: Help - Passage planning, getting stuck

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Going from San Francisco to PNW:

http://georgebenson.us/

Cruising World published an article called the Baja Dash some years ago, same concept.

Frisco is in Texas.

Your timing and plans are all wrong, you can't sail on that kind of schedule.

Truck the boat. Or Dockwise.



If Dockwise are still in business, that would be better for the boat: I share the OP's concern for the possible negative effects of trucking that particular boat. Dockwise served very well for friends of ours, the boats involved did well.

It seems to me that the OP's goal for the trip (he wants to continue bringing his boat to Canada, having brought it to Aruba from the UK) and his wife's of cruising CA, OR & WA are mutually exclusive in the time frame given. These are not great cruising grounds due to the lack of anchorages north of Calif. coupled with the fairly relentless NW winds and south setting current.

Just my opinion, but I think this couple and boat would be best served by re-thinking the plan as presented to CF. There will likely be a great deal of wear and tear on the boat if she is sailed up the north American Coast, as was alluded to above, she is likely to need time for repairs, and there goes the schedule. Although more miles, the HI route would be easier on the boat, in the right season.

Oh, well, their money, boat and choice.

Ann
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Old 18-03-2015, 16:38   #26
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Re: Help - Passage planning, getting stuck

DOCKWISE STILL HAS A WEBSITE, as far as I know... would need to get a price check. As far getting to see the coastal scenery, along the coast, while it would be beautiful, however if the weather turns bad, one would be in a lot of trouble very quickly and the COAST GUARD might not be able to help. And I don't think the little woman would be able to see much from 20+ miles out. The only time I would recommend looking at the scenery is from an aircraft. Please check the internet and give DOCKWISE a call.
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Old 18-03-2015, 17:58   #27
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Re: Help - Passage planning, getting stuck

First, you can find a slip in a state marina from Sept to May at around a $1,000 a month in Hawaii. It's space available but there have been boats wintering over at Honokohau Harbor on the Kona Coast of the Big Island every year. There was a guy sailing his Vancouver 27 to BC last year from the Carribean.

The Hurricanes that head west almost always stay between 10 & 20 degrees north latitude so if you can find wind below 10 degrees or get above 20 degrees, should have an uneventful trip. When I say usual, that wasn't last year as one storm veered north as it neared the islands. They almost go south of us vining us the best weather of the summer.
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Old 18-03-2015, 18:05   #28
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Re: Help - Passage planning, getting stuck

Sevenstar Yacht Transport

Sevenstar Yacht Transport - Let The Best Ship Your Yacht

expensive - our 40' Caliber was quoted at $21,700 from Ensenada to Palm Beach. But, Sevenstar does not do the US or Canadian west coast.

I had several friends use Dockwise from La Paz to Vancouver and were very happy with them. Last year I asked for a quote to the US West Coast or Canada and they responded that they are no longing making any trips north of Panama.

A truck seems to be the only alternative to travel on her own bottom.

I just checked with a Delivery Captain friend who lives here in our Marina. He said he dislikes the trip from Panama north to the PNW so much he just quoted $500/day to someone asking for his help last week. That did include his deck hand but did not include expenses such as food, transportation, port fees.

He also said he would make no commitment what-so-ever to when the trip would start or end. And, most importantly, he would guarantee that the boat would spend many, many expensive nights in transient slips on the way north.

At a bare minimum, IF you can make 100 miles per day it would be a 40-day non-stop trip. My brother's Tartan 42 with a strong Perkins and a Maxprop could only average 4.2 knots from Cabo to San Diego and burned 1.1 gallons per hour doing it. That means you are buying at least 1,100 gallons of fuel.
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Old 18-03-2015, 20:03   #29
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Re: Help - Passage planning, getting stuck

Thanks for all the info, I have read lots of reports and know this trip has a reputation for being nasty. That's why I am still looking at it before deciding.

Points that give me serious concern.
1. Cost of marinas and serious lack of alternatives N of San Francisco
2. Liz wanted to spend some time seeing Washington and Oregon, if there are few decent harbours/anchorages along that cost she is not going to be able to do that.

3.
[QUOTE=TacomaSailor;1777852]"

Pt Reyes to Cape Blanco (340 NM) is the most dangerous (July - September NW 35 - 45 knots and 18' short period breaking seas at least twice a month)

This is at least double that predicted by the pilot chart for July; 1% report of gales, one small area of 10% chance of 10ft+ seas, The wind rose shows 50-60% for N 16 - 21kn, wind with current.

The plan for this section would be to wait for a weather window but if it is more likely to be 2 full/strong gales a month as well as 50% difficult winds AND no shelter for a few hundred miles that could be a very long wait.

The rest sounds unpleasant but not dangerous, this sounds either dangerous or that it would just stop me because I never got a safe window

From your posts this sounds like 'local knowledge' which I have always found more reliable than charted predictions which can underestimate conditions particularly in areas sailors try to avoid.

(Few sailboats can make fast progress into the prevailing 4' - 5' swell coming from the NW. The boat has to climb up and over each swell coming by every 10 to 12 seconds.) Yes, Voya will maintain cruising speed motoring or motor-sailing to windward in this, uncomfortable I agree but not likely to do any damage.

You mention a wood boat and suffering on a truck. How will that boat do pounding directly into a 4' to 5' swell and chop backed by a consistent 10 to 15 knot wind for over 4,000 miles? Will your boat be better off after that 1,000 hour ordeal?
Yes, its what she is designed for (racing in the western approaches/bay of Biscay). The problem with road transport is high frequency vibration while the hull is unsupported, all the loads are in the wrong direction.

You, and others, suggest Dockwise. I have tried several times to get quotes from them with no response. If anyone has a ballpark figure for a 35ft boat Costa Rica to Vancouver area pleas share and tell me how you got it!!! Even had shipping agents based in both Aruba and Vancouver look into transport by sea. Both came back with nothing and said no ships do that route.

So looks like the consensus it that the only sensible route is via Hawaii timing it to miss the hurricane season of Mexico, short stop in Hawaii but don't leave the boat then to PNW to arrive with the summer weather. Oh well can always get another job if they wont give me the time off!
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Old 18-03-2015, 20:09   #30
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Re: Help - Passage planning, getting stuck

Just had another check for Dockwise and Seven Stars. Neither of them list PNW as a destination in the sailing schedules.
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