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Old 12-03-2010, 17:41   #1
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Help! Meeting Broker Tomorrow!

My wife and I are meeting a broker tomorrow for brunch to talk about purchase of a specific type of boat that I hope to live aboard. I have never dealt with a broker nor have I owned a boat (or a house for that matter). I have been doing my homework about how to protect myself when buying a boat (surveys, buyers brokers etc) but I can't find much info on the actual cost. Is it mandatory to have liability insurance before sailing the boat away? Haul out and survey costs? Marina? (I can anchor out until I save for that)

I'm a broke ass dog and barely have boat money, 35K...so I wonder if someone could tell me what costs (other than the purchase price) are associated with the process that I may not know of? Just trying to see if I can finally do this.
Oh, why didn't I go to college like my mother wanted me too?! Thanks, Eric
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Old 12-03-2010, 17:51   #2
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Freudian slip

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Originally Posted by virginia boy View Post
My wife and I are meeting a broker tomorrow for brunch to talk about purchase of a specific type of boat that I hope to live aboard.
My lovely wife (whom I adore) has just pointed out a possible Freudian slip in my previous post. I meant to say a boat that WE hope to live aboard! Really honey, It was just a mistake. Honest. Honey munchkin.
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Old 12-03-2010, 18:07   #3
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Good catch, there, VB. Only took 10 minutes for you to put your tail between your legs and look up adoringly with your big brown eyes!

On to your questions: In addition to the agreed-upon purchase price, it is typically the buyer's responsibility to pay for the haul out and survey. Depending on the size and type of the boat, that can be from around $250 to $800 for the haul out and $500 to $1000 for the survey (these are very approximate guesses, of course). What that reveals in terms of needed fixes then becomes items for negotiation with the seller.

You will then have documentation and/or registration fees, as well as sales or use tax. All that depends on the state. Sorry, I don't know about VA. Insurance is usually optional, legally, but (IMHO) you'd be nuts not to have it. An accident, fuel/oil spill, etc. can get very expensive, very quickly. Lots of marinas will insist on it.

Hope this helps.

ID
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Old 12-03-2010, 18:10   #4
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The difference between living on a boat vs. living on land?
On a boat you say "aye aye, dear".

If you aren't going to be in a marina you don't need liability. Whether you should is your decision.
If you're going to have a survey you should haul, even if it's for half an hour just to let the surveyor get a look at the hull while the boat's in the slings. Costs vary greatly, so you should research that in your local area. Get recommendations from multiple sources.

Enjoy, and give my regards to "Honey Munchkin".
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Old 12-03-2010, 18:24   #5
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ID pretty much covered it. If you are financing you have to have insurance and a survey, survey would require hauling the boat. Buyer would pay for both, whether you end up buying the boat or not.

If you are paying cash, unless you have a lot of experience and know what to look for, I would still recommend a survey. A boat that is a "really good deal" if it has problems, could cost way more than the boat could ever be worth to repair. Some of the deal breakers to look for:

1. major structural problems like hull or deck damage, mast/rig damage

2. soft decks. Harder to see than major damage as it is hidden.

3. dead engine

4. boat over all trashed, worn out, all gear needs replacing.

Of course, all this is out the window if you are paying $35,000 for a $500,000 Hinkley that needs nothing more than a new engine.

Maybe a little more information on the boat and you can get a little more detailed advice.
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Old 12-03-2010, 18:28   #6
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If you plan to live aboard and hold a regular job somewhere, anchoring out may prove to be difficult. If you have researched this and have a solution, great. But finding a place to keep your dinghy, a car if you need one, your boat when anchored..all may prove to be difficult. I don't know about Va if that is where you are, but many places don't allow anchoring for more than a given amount of time. When you look at slip costs you may find that they can be way more than taxes on a home. Most slips I have looked into cost more than my taxes on my 4000 sq ft house on 120 acres! If you are planning on moving around and don't have to hold a regular job then your expenses don't have to run any more than food, boat upkeep, any entry/port fees and anything else you might want like insurence. There are some countries where you are allowed to renew your visas pretty much indefinately and the cost of basics are almost nothing compared to north america. What's your plan?

Costs with buying? Boat cost. Broker fee (if buyer's broker) ussually 10%. Surveyor fee including haul out (if wanted)around $750 pluss haulout/launch. Title company fee-could be 750. Insurance (if you want it or need it). Upgrade/refit of what is needed. Document/registration fees. Tax. Transportation if needed. Then the big one- a place to keep it!
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Old 12-03-2010, 18:45   #7
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It's a Westsail 32

Thanks for the info, looks like I might have to save a few more thousand before I make an offer. But freedom is just around the corner...whooo Hoo!
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Old 12-03-2010, 19:36   #8
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You should find plenty of Westsail owners on the forum to ask for information. I have a good friend who bought a WS 32 a couple of years ago and spent a year installing new motor and overhauling the boat. Be glad to share his info with you.

Also, great resource if you haven't already found him, Bud Taplin. Find him at the Westsail website. He used to work at the plant and has an encyclopedic knowledge of the boats.

You didn't say where you're going to buy the boat. If anywhere near S Florida I know a great surveyor.

Ask before your buy.

Good luck.

Skip
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Old 12-03-2010, 19:50   #9
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Thanks Skip, I am in the Wash DC area but as I stated earlier, it looks like it's gonna be another two months of saving before I can make a move. I have researched every W32 on Bud Taplins site, and on Yachtworld and have learned enough about these boats that I will know the boat for me when I see it. I will have it surveyed though.

I am buying the first solid boat in my price range that has a decent engine. The rest I can upgrade slowly.
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Old 12-03-2010, 20:25   #10
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Sounds like you have already done your homework.

Have fun.

Skip
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Old 12-03-2010, 20:28   #11
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Having recently gone through this, here is what you can expect in the Annapolis area (2009) for 31':
Survey boat ~$750
Motor Survey ~$350
Haul Out for Survey ~$200 (if on the hard this is usually the round trip)
Surveyors may bill you, but the yard will want the money that day. They also want a work order in advance.
Broker fees - think house, not car. The broker should supply you with the documentation, in advance, of their fees. It will say what they get and what they will and will not do.

Pick your own surveyor. Boat Survey - Annapolis I used Steve Uhthoff and was very happy, even when the bad news came in Does It Take Everyone This Long?
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Old 12-03-2010, 21:25   #12
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Survey

Virginia Boy,

It has been about 1 1/2 years since I had a survey done, but Keefa's numbers are probably pretty close. I paid about $250 for the haul out and $20/ft for the survey in Rock Hall, MD and the same in Annapolis. I paid the same rate on the west coast for another survey.

I highly recommend Allan "Buddy" Williams Williams Marine Survey out of Towson, MD. He surveyed the two boats for me in MD and I think he is extremely conscientious and thorough--both surveys took the better part of 6-7 hours; his written report was very impressive and included pictures of deficient areas. I wish he was able to do the survey on the boat we bought, but it was just too far to make economic sense for either one of us.

There are bound to be things the surveyor recommends (and the bank might require you to agree to do as a condition of loan if you finance) and you should be prepared for that in your purchase budget. There are some things that fall under "would love to" and others that are "must do" if you are planning on cruising or live aboard.

Good luck.

Marshall
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