Help How cap off unused seacocks ?

[rwidman]

If you have the boat out of the water or if you block the thru hull from the outside, another option is to remove the seacock and just cap the thru hull.

[mikedefieslife]

Got three unused seacocks here. Well one doesn't really count as there isn't enough weight in the boat to keep it below the waterline.

Anyway, all are just closed, and have a hose on raised above the waterline. Quite handy for getting seawater when you don't want to go outside. I've actually got plans for two of them, but for now I'm happy enough as they are.

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by rwidman

...another option is to remove the seacock and just cap the thru hull.

True sea cocks are not attached to a separately mounted thru-hull fitting, but are installed integrally with the thru-hull. Inferior installations are comprised of a thru-hull fitting with a separate ball or gate valve added to it.

[David M]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

No. Cap the sea cock.

I did say ideally cap it off with the same material as the thru-hull valve. Temporary means temporary which means that it should not be left with the hose capped off for very long.

Glassed over really is ideal if you want to go through that arduous process and you never intend to use that thru-hull again, which the OP says that he does plan on using again.

[thinwater]

There are three reasons not to glass over the holes:

1. You may decide you don't like a composting head. I had one friend tear it out and go back to a conventional system. He was glad he had left the fittings and tank.
2. The next owner may want to change. Although I can see go reasons for composting heads, your restrict the number of potential buyers.
3. You may want the fittings for something else, like AC or a wash-down pump.

Just sayin'. I would cap it off carefully. With no hose, the odds of failure of a flanged seacock are very low. A skinny non-flanged fitting is a different matter--I dislike those in all cases.

[Captsteve53]

Just for all those with the idea of leaving old sea-cocks in place and even if just above the water line here is a true story

A few years ago, a vessel I surveyed (Due to insurance claim) nearly sank during a Pacific passage because of a long-forgotten disconnected icebox drain that exited the hull above the resting waterline. During an extended passage, this outlet with valve (Apollo) corroded away(fell off) but was routinely thrust a foot or two underwater, and it admitted hundreds of gallons of water each hour. The bilge pump eventually failed (most likely clogged with washed-out bilge debris), flooding ensued, the batteries were submerged, unsecured sole panels floated out of position, and pandemonium reigned below. The crew was unaware of the disconnected drain, did not know its location, and therefore was unable to arrest the rising tide for several hours, nearly losing the vessel in the process.

**** Happens my friends and dont ever forget it!

Final comment:(I PROMISE) Perhaps most importantly, “please” don’t confuse an inline ball valve with a true sea-cock. Inline ball valves, which lack a load-distributing flange, are neither appropriate for use as sea-cocks nor designed by their manufacturers to be used in this manner. They may be UL-approved “valves,” but they are not designated by UL as “sea valves.” In addition to lacking a flange, inline ball valves utilize NPT or tapered threads, while purpose-made sea-cocks use straight or NPS threads. The latter allow full engagement of the like-threaded through-hull fitting—as many as eight or 10 threads—while the ball valve will engage only two or three of the straight through-hull threads. It’s worth repeating, as this is among the most common sea-cock installation faux pas I’ve witnessed in my 40 years in the marine industry: inline ball valves are not designed to be used as seacocks.

As I am a certified IIMS surveyor/ Lloyd's Maritime accredited I do get to see numerous failures that the average "boatie" never hears about

Cheers Steve

[Bleemus]

I have lost count of the number of inline ball valves I have seen.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Captsteve53

Just for all those with the idea of leaving old sea-cocks in place and even if just above the water line here is a true story

A few years ago, a vessel I surveyed (Due to insurance claim) nearly sank during a Pacific passage because of a long-forgotten disconnected icebox drain that exited the hull above the resting waterline. During an extended passage, this outlet with valve (Apollo) corroded away(fell off) but was routinely thrust a foot or two underwater, and it admitted hundreds of gallons of water each hour. The bilge pump eventually failed (most likely clogged with washed-out bilge debris), flooding ensued, the batteries were submerged, unsecured sole panels floated out of position, and pandemonium reigned below. The crew was unaware of the disconnected drain, did not know its location, and therefore was unable to arrest the rising tide for several hours, nearly losing the vessel in the process.

**** Happens my friends and dont ever forget it!

Final comment:(I PROMISE) Perhaps most importantly, “please” don’t confuse an inline ball valve with a true sea-cock. Inline ball valves, which lack a load-distributing flange, are neither appropriate for use as sea-cocks nor designed by their manufacturers to be used in this manner. They may be UL-approved “valves,” but they are not designated by UL as “sea valves.” In addition to lacking a flange, inline ball valves utilize NPT or tapered threads, while purpose-made sea-cocks use straight or NPS threads. The latter allow full engagement of the like-threaded through-hull fitting—as many as eight or 10 threads—while the ball valve will engage only two or three of the straight through-hull threads. It’s worth repeating, as this is among the most common sea-cock installation faux pas I’ve witnessed in my 40 years in the marine industry: inline ball valves are not designed to be used as seacocks.

As I am a certified IIMS surveyor/ Lloyd's Maritime accredited I do get to see numerous failures that the average "boatie" never hears about

Cheers Steve

A) "Hundreds of gallons an hour" would require consistent below the waterline exposure. A garden hose fills a 5 gallon bucket in about a minute or more. That's 300 gallons per hour.
B) An apollo valve is not a seacock.
C) any seacock, unused or in use, requires maintenance and can sink a boat.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Bleemus

I have lost count of the number of inline ball valves I have seen.

I have never seen a point in counting.

[sesmith]

Originally Posted by thinwater

There are three reasons not to glass over the holes:

1. You may decide you don't like a composting head. I had one friend tear it out and go back to a conventional system. He was glad he had left the fittings and tank.
2. The next owner may want to change. Although I can see go reasons for composting heads, your restrict the number of potential buyers.
3. You may want the fittings for something else, like AC or a wash-down pump.

Just sayin'. I would cap it off carefully. With no hose, the odds of failure of a flanged seacock are very low. A skinny non-flanged fitting is a different matter--I dislike those in all cases.

Exactly the reasons we left ours in place and just capped them. We won't ever ditch the composter, but I saved the jabsco head, and left the tank and (new) hoses in place. Never know what the next owner wants. A wash down pump...now that's a great idea for another project, especially for muddy anchor chain.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

True sea cocks are not attached to a separately mounted thru-hull fitting, but are installed integrally with the thru-hull. Inferior installations are comprised of a thru-hull fitting with a separate ball or gate valve added to it.

Why is one preferable to another?

Separate valves are easy to replace if needed. We could even replace them in the water if we blocked the through hull from the outside.

[Terra Nova]

Ball and gate valves have pipe threads which imperfectly mate with a thru-hull fitting's straight threads. and they have no provision for bolting.

[Don C L]

I have two that I removed the seacocks on, capped them and squirted a big blob of silicone in them from the outside too. If I ever want to resurrect them, it's not hard to take the silicone blob out. The only thing I'd be wary of is getting lazy and forgetting they are there and putting something heavy nearby that could fall or slide on the through-hull and break it/crack it leading to unseen leaks. I know of a boat that sunk that way.

[Captsteve53]

OK OK-I'm going to break my promise as flooding is a serious life threatening issue which is part of my job to prevent so when i see erroneous statements made i need to rebuke with FACTS:

FACT 1) If that 1" fitting is located 2-3 feet below the waterline(easy to have when heeled in trade wind sailing), it will allow approximately 30.2 gallons per minute, or 1'800 gallons an hour, into your hull (Formula-Sidney Innerebner, PhD, PE)—more than most bilge pumps or the proverbial scared crew member with a bucket can handle.

FACT 2) A two-inch hole that is one foot below waterline can fill a 55-gallon drum in 42.4 seconds!

FACT 3) Remember that each gallon of salt water weighs 8.6 pounds. A one-inch hole that is two feet below the water line is forcing your boat’s weight to increase at 240 pounds per minute or four pounds per second. Remember, too, that as your boat fills with water, the effective hole depth increases, forcing faster water ingress!

FACT 3) A 2000 GPH bilge pump in perfect conditions can remove 33.3 gallons per minute.(Advertised rate)

FACT 4) According to Johnson however, the pump can provide this capacity only with no hose attached. Pumping water a more realistic 3-feet uphill, the capacity drops to 1400 GPH or 23.3 gallons per minute

Resources for planning:

West Marine has a fine page on bilge pump selection.

Boat US has a fine article by "This Old Boat" author, Dan Casey.

Dan Casey provides specific information on installing bilge pumps.

SailNet has a good article on installing an improved bilge pump system.

Cheers Steve (IIMS/Lloyd's Maritime Surveyor)

[mikeyboards]

good topic..thanks everyone for there responses..learnt a lot from this...