Help finding the right cruising boat

[vjm]

Originally Posted by Huson

Ok... cats have their merits to this equation. The one big cat we were on was way more comfortable than the rest, and yet WAY out of budget. The Wharram designs have always been interesting. Even watched videos with Mr. Wharram on and sailing the rig. Love the simplicity, wooden cleats, and bollards. Lashed bracing, large tramps, huge bridge deck. The ability to beach on a leeward island. Speed, ability to hide from squalls in the shallows, maybe even out flank some with just speed.

I just wish I could lay my hands/eyes/ride on one close by (300miles). I have NEVER seen one out here.
Wouldn't know where to start... don't know much about size options..... heck anything..... I am a wharram cat virgin. What would be the baby step here? A hobie, nacra.... do you find a cheap 21 wharram and learn the ropes on that... does anyone have any experience with these?... btr yet....have one in need a novice greenhorn crew member. (Schedule kinda tied up for a month or so, but might be able to work something in after that. :-)
Do you/ can you heave-to in a storm? or run under barepoles? Yikes... whole can of worms.... I feel Amazon books calling my name.... ;-)

Wharrams of all sizes have been all over the world, in all weathers. I would start with the Wharram site and I seem to remember there is a Wharram forum. I am 100% sure someone on there could be persuaded to take you for a ride, although you may have to travel a bit. Nice folks. They have a rendezvous every year but I think it just passed (could be wrong). Search this site for "Wharram" and check and see if there is a yahoo or Facebook group for them. You can read James Wharram's books, but I think talking to and making connections with owners and builders would be more helpful. A pro builder in Florida has done a few beautiful examples. Google up Rory McDougall as well for a look at the capabilities of the Tiki 21. Woodenboat forum probably has some threads on Wharram builds.

According to sailboat listings there is a Tiki 21 for sale in Texas also, if you guys wanted to get a practice boat or just talk to the current owner. Beware, sailboatlistings commonly has boats still listed that have sold, but this listing is from May of this year so decent chance it is available still.

Do check out other designers as well, like Richard Woods. It's important to understand what the differences in design and construction are meant to do.

[Huson]

Ty for the info on the wharram, I did notice the one on lake Travis, dropped a question their way. I have family in Austin that needs to be visited :-)

We have been on a whitby, and my wife loved the galley plan, and tons of room. I seem to remember the owner having a huge issue with the balsa core from water line to rub rail... don't know if this is a common issue, but raised my eyebrows when he said it took over two years to repair properly. There also seems to be a huge disparity in price... like in the 140's to 30's. I will put some more research into these and see what I have to report. A very funtional safe feeling boat though.

It seems wharram has a heavy weather sailing book/doc available on their website.... so far an interesting read. Seems the Polynesian hull design is rather well regarded for not tripping in heavy seas, and over 60 years of good reports. I wonder how much a hard bridge deck salon would affect their windage and weight management. Will search their boards for some answers.

I am also going to research what a build out on a small one costs for materials. If I could sell the "fleet" and maybe a little more chips, it might be an obtion for a wet behind the ears greenhorn.

[Huson]

Well, everyone I want to thank everyone for their time and valuable responses. It truly was a welcome adventure. I am very impressed with the witty and thoughtful banter, along with thought provoking constructive criticism. My questions have been throughly answered, and I now have a few compass heading to focus on.

My take from all of this. Is while possible with a monohull under 40, to be truly comfortable (not just safe) 38 to 44 is a btr frame, and maybe a tad more up front with less fixing. I honestly think a Wharram with a bridge deck salon in a 36 will possibly fit the bill perfectly. Understanding that the add on will have to be done by my hands. But many of the 38 to 44's will fit the bill also. I plan to start making moves in about 6 months unless the deal of a lifetime shows up earlier. So back to the grindstone for me. By all means keep this thread going. I think their are many newer sailors that can benifit from honest opinions from people that have sailed the waters in boats of yesteryear, on shoestring budgets.

Thanks again to everyone! !
Cheers!

P.s. hopefully in about a year or so I might some of ya'll on the water..... you'll be able to find us with kids hanging from every hatch. :-)

[YARGO]

You have received a lot of good advice. I did exactly what your planning to do many years ago. If I were you, I would go for the Morgan OI 41. It' a strong boat with more room than any of the other boats mentioned and and excellent live aboard. If you get the OI 41 you will never regret it.

[Huson]

I tend to be with you on that. It seems that with 60 ish sq ft of sail per ton they are on par with other heavy displacement cruisers. Have all the room needed, and load carrying capacity. A balanced helm, protected rudder. Heavy displacement and lets say (not flat) bottoms should provide a smooth ride. The ideal case I think would be a center board model that would improve windward performace, and (tacking?). Still gonna look at the wharram cats, but even with my specs, they are (really gonna be a stretch for the wifes comfort. ) Am really impressed with all the great alternatives listed here though, and few have been attached to the short list with the right price, conditions, and location. Did you have one? Center board model? How did your adventures turn out?

[YARGO]

Never owned an OI 41 but sailed them extensively throughout the Caribbean. You do not need a centerboard. Windward ability is more than adequate for cruising. Many have crossed oceans. Compared to many other boats out there, these boats are overbuilt. For your needs, in, your price range, none of the other suggestions are even close.

[FSMike]

Originally Posted by Huson

-----The ideal case I think would be a center board model that would improve windward performace, and (tacking?).
-----

Never knew the OI41 had a centerboard model. The ones I'm familiar with had a full keel with rather shallow draft (4'6"?) The redesign, the Morgan Classic 41, had a deeper keel (5'6"?) with a cutaway forefoot and a skeg hung rudder iirc. The classic sailed better, but both boats would make great cruisers.

For further Wharram boat porn see boatsmithfl.com.

[puffcard]

I was just looking at a few boats while drinking coffee and the Cal 43 caught my eye. Has the bunks, sails very well, a large cockpit (very important), the only problem they only built 14 vs 1,100 OI's and they are getting old. Interesting boat for $29K. I've have always been jealous of the performance of the Cal 40, right out of the box was a very fast boat.

1970 Cal Jenson Marine Cal 43 sailboat for sale in Outside United States

[Huson]

Yes that boat looks well equipped for that price. Wrong coast for us... at this time in our lives. With older Grand parents, and plenty of visits for the grand kiddos. We will be sticking to gulf Coast for these first few years. Would love a west pac/ baja cruise a little later on in life. When the admiral and I can sit back and relax a bit more. :-) looks like a bargain for someone looking on the west coast though. Might be able to negotiate a cash price in the low 20's...

[roygee]

Originally Posted by Huson

Ok... cats have their merits to this equation. The one big cat we were on was way more comfortable than the rest, and yet WAY out of budget. The Wharram designs have always been interesting. Even watched videos with Mr. Wharram on and sailing the rig. Love the simplicity, wooden cleats, and bollards. Lashed bracing, large tramps, huge bridge deck. The ability to beach on a leeward island. Speed, ability to hide from squalls in the shallows, maybe even out flank some with just speed.

I just wish I could lay my hands/eyes/ride on one close by (300miles). I have NEVER seen one out here.
Wouldn't know where to start... don't know much about size options..... heck anything..... I am a wharram cat virgin. What would be the baby step here? A hobie, nacra.... do you find a cheap 21 wharram and learn the ropes on that... does anyone have any experience with these?... btr yet....have one in need a novice greenhorn crew member. (Schedule kinda tied up for a month or so, but might be able to work something in after that. :-)
Do you/ can you heave-to in a storm? or run under barepoles? Yikes... whole can of worms.... I feel Amazon books calling my name.... ;-)

Huson I have 2ea. 46 foot Kirt Hughes with framed D-beam,and Mast sections that could be had for less than the material in them, not counting Labor you Might be interested. They are in Beaumont Tx call me Roy 4096586119

[Huson]

Roy, I will call you monday. One of my children had their appendix removed yesterday, and another playing ball all over the state this weekend. Stretched pretty thin as of now.