Heavy weather, can we be honest?

[knockabout]

good trade wind sailing conditions often include heavy seas / sail boats are designed for wind watch out for the heavy breaking seas / keep your main hatch shut unless you have a small main cabin with bulkheads either side of it / one heavy green wave on board with your hatch open could be trouble

[Hasbeen]

Some places have more heavy weather than others. I have met many circumnavigators who have sailed from the US, & even the UK without encountering any really nasty stuff until they got to the Tasman sea.

I have sat through 50+ hours of 45 knots + in the harbour at Coffs Harbour, & thought I was going to lose the boat there, in port. My anchor was so dug in that the harbour board launch had to come & get it up for me, & the other yacht there. Neither of us could get them out of the bottom. I sat through 4 days of gale, [the forecast said 70 knots], in the little port of Foster.

The NSW coast has a variable south going current which will vary from zero to over 5 knots. I once averaged 9 knots over the ground for 132 miles, without seeing over 4 knots on the speedo. 30 knots of wind against this will build a much worse sea than a 6 hour burst of 50 knots. It is always the sea, not the wind that gets you.

Add to this that there is a 400 mile stretch of coast with no entry possible once the sea is up. Then add the fact that the strong fronts move from south to north, at about cruising yacht speed, & you have a recipe for the inexperienced getting into some really nasty stuff, & traveling along in it, without the wind getting all that strong. This is a real trap for people going on their big cruise from Sydney & Melbourne, up to the reef, [Great Barrier Reef of course].

One friend had the cockpit of his rather handy 40 footer full of water for over 30 hours. He is a professional ocean going tug skipper, so has no need to exaggerate. When he got to Queensland the first thing he did was fit 2 extra, & bigger cockpit drains.

My yacht was a bit too fast & a bit too easily driven when things got nasty, but at least I wasn’t out in it as long.

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by knockabout

good trade wind sailing conditions often include heavy seas / sail boats are designed for wind watch out for the heavy breaking seas / keep your main hatch shut unless you have a small main cabin with bulkheads either side of it / one heavy green wave on board with your hatch open could be trouble

Ha, Ive been caught out twice with the companionway open. Once was stupidity, marginal conditions, 30-35 knot trades broad reaching someplace off the kermadecs on a 28 footer. We had the top dropboard out for ventilation, and with the galley to leeward of the hatch the spray getting inside wasn't a big issue, until a big rogue wave knocked us over, swirled us round for a bit then surfed us down its face. We broached, then somehow gybed still don't know what happened and I was in the cockpit (or rather swilling around underwater hanging onto the tiller for dear life).

Fortunately there was a nice big lull afterwards for baling the foot or so of water sloshing over the floorboards. The stern was very low as the cockpit drains had blocked with a rag, and all the water ran aft. Maybe 6 inches of freeboard left? Anyway the force of water coming below ripped a shelf of the galley. It ripped the trimtab of the rudder and bent the windvane shaft and destroyed the canvas leecloths. Everything below was pretty wet. Took days to dry her out and all the electronics progressively died due to the switchboard going underwater.

The other time was bad luck, or timing. I was sailing to Antarctica on my 34 footer, running with a scrap of headsail in 30-40 knots someplace south of Tasmania. A pretty easy sea, nothing to worry about... So I popped below to do something (windvane was steering well). Just as I opened the strong aluminium companionway door and was halfway below a roaring announced a big breaker on its way. We were tossed on our side and slid sideways at quite a speed. Water filled the cockpit and poured below past me with my leg half in and half out of the door. Fortunately the dodger and my body helped stem the worst of it and it was quickly baled out, but not before my bunk was soaked being the leeward quarterberth.

At least the soaking washed out the tuna smell from my pillow where my brother had dropped an open tin of tuna on it a day or so before.

Both events happened when conditions were brisk but otherwise fine. And both were due (I believe) to rogue waves of some sort.

This is a short clip of a wave hitting us midway from Hobart to Chile on a 64 foot schooner. About 40-50 knots for an hour or two as the front crossed. Overall pretty small seas, but the odd bigger one. We were kind of hove to by the stern. There is a longer video of the whole leadup. Not long after this wave we got underway again as the wind had backed and eased slightly.
https://youtu.be/hMBKybEwrFw
Short version

https://youtu.be/CJMIBbt2svo

Long version

[Sailshabby]

Coming back to Annapolis from Bermuda one year, the skipper decided to ignore the wx map Customs handed off on the way out. 34' Tartan hit the Gulf Stream about the same time as storm (with the proverbial the opposing wind). Up and down waves higher than the length of the boat, and for easily 18 hours, we couldn't find a cooperative wave set in that washing machine to yank it around. Wind averaged 30kts, gusts higher (of course). In hindsight I was glad to experience it, as it gave me both confidence and wisdom. The "funny" thing was, the year before we were bringing the boat from Mahtha's Vineyahd to Naptown and found ourselves between the tail of a departing hurricane and the vanguard of an arriving one. It was blowing 30kts as we made a beeline for Jamestown In the dark with the helmsman wearing a swim mask and burying the bow deep in each successive wave enough coming up the river that we all confessed 'pitchpole' had crossed our respective minds. Naturally, we all assumed that would be the worst weather we'd ever see again... until we saw worse the following year.

It's always interesting that when telling the story to nonboaters, they're amazed that 20kts + always gets a sailor's attention. In their minds, that's a crawl in rush hour traffic...

[B00B00]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

This us a handy little calculator for wave size or based on fetch wind, time and depth. It will tell you the limiting factor.

https://planetcalc.com/4442/

Eg my worst storm as a kid off Cape Palliser(you remember this one BOOBOO?) if I use 60 knots as the wind and 90 km as the fetch I get 5.7 meter waves, that seems about right. I'd have estimated 25 foot, or nearer 8 meters, but I was young and untrained (and scared!) and possibly with some swell under it it might have appeared this size as a combined sea and swell.

In this case it needs 8 hrs at that windspeed and fetch to develop those waves. Less time and it becomes time limited and you get smaller waves.

To get maximum wave heights for 60 knots you need 2000km of fetch, about 60 hrs of time and 55 meters water depth. Or the equivalent dynamic fetch scenario. Very very rare fortunately, because you'd get about a 26.2 meter sig wave height moving at approximately 33 knots with a 185m wavelength and an 11 sec period using a length to height ratio of 7, for a breaking wave, many will be longer and faster.

https://planetcalc.com/4406/ gives some other neat stuff on period and speed.

Yes Ben I remember it well (too well..) but probably not as well as you because I was much younger.
Again it comes down to deadlines, we wouldn't have been out there if we didn't have the deadline of getting into Wellington for the 1990 celebration re-enactments.
Trashed the boat that trip pretty badly....

[B00B00]

So Ben that would be why the waves get so damn big down south with all the fetch. I kinda thought that there would be a point that the waves didnt really get much bigger over a few hundred nm of fetch. I suppose on top of that you get more cross swell with more fetch which adds to the rouge wave potential.

The term liquid Himalaya's really is true down there, I know this after dropping down one at over 30kts boatspeed and nearly pitch poling 1800nm out from Cape horn. We survived but the rig didnt.... sent the whole lot to the bottom of the southern ocean.

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by B00B00

Yes Ben I remember it well (too well..) but probably not as well as you because I was much younger.
Again it comes down to deadlines, we wouldn't have been out there if we didn't have the deadline of getting into Wellington for the 1990 celebration re-enactments.
Trashed the boat that trip pretty badly....

Exactly right. I think they were between a rock and a hard place, deadline wise, and athough forcast wasn't great, It wasn't supposed to be as bad as what we got. I remember the look on the old mans face when we got the latest forecast over the radio, with gales behind us and a storm warning ahead and nowhere to run.

I also remember talking to Dan about it afterwards. From memory you both stayed below for a lot of it, I stayed on deck. Dan thought I was brave to be on deck, but in truth I was too scared to go below incase the boat sank! And there was a kind of morbid facination with watching the boat disappear underwater with each wave and slowly emerge from the froth.

The worst moment was when the rope wrapped around the propeller and the engine stalled. Someone had knocked the battery switch off and when the engine stalled all the electrics and lights died at the same time. It felt like we must have been sinking then. Ahh the good old days!

[Nikki S]

Op good, an opportunity to tell a story: Strongest wind I ever sailed in was Port Philip bay, on a hobie cat, when we didn't make it home before the storm. Was not sustained, but over 50knots. Sailing on bare poles , felt like it took all of 2 mins to go 10km. Heaps of unintended fun. Would not be fun in our keel boat, I'm sure.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Catapault

Thanks Ken,

PS: I have little use for 'arm chair experts' and tend to ignore them.. But I AM a fan of what works, by other people doing similar activities !.

Heading out into the Agean in 3 weeks, and the Adriatic in August...

Hopefully no nasty weather !

Regards

Send me a pm in August, we'll be in Montenegro and Croatia. Hope to see you.

Ken

[B00B00]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Send me a pm in August, we'll be in Montenegro and Croatia. Hope to see you.

Ken

I will be there as well from about the 1st August.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Cherod

OMG , those poor bikes ? I hope you have them a good fresh water wash an oolong after that !!

The salt water finished them off, we tossed them and purchased a pair of Brompton folding bikes a few months later. No amount of fresh water could fix them, they competely froze up with rust.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by B00B00

I will be there as well from about the 1st August.

Be sure to contact us for a meet up. Kotor is a nice bay.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by B00B00

Yes I do agree that people do tend to massively overstate the wind strength and also the average boat speeds. In both cases they look at the highest number and choose that. In my experience the average boatspeed is normally the slowest number you see on the dial.

We get our share of gales in NZ, wellington in particular has an average of over 100 days of gale force winds per year and an average wind strength of 29km an hour (10kph more than Chicago).
It really does howl there and with some parts of cook straight/french pass getting 5-8kts of tide it really makes for some truly heinous conditions.
I can honestly say we have raced in 50kts of wind there many times-gusts only, not sustained but still fresh to frightening.

This was the last time I sailed down there. 35fter at 27kts boatspeed, if you dont believe me then watch the video.... We had 35-55kts for about 5hrs, probably one of the best 5 hrs of my life... Skip the first 30 sec.

That looks like fun, it's amazing what modern planing hulls are capable of doing. Thanks for sharing the video.

[mako]

Weird thing is that I've always had more trouble with big seas rather than strong winds. Even in small boats.

Worst winds I've encountered were in Tampa Bay when I got hit by a waterspout. That was a fun 30 seconds!

[BandB]

Originally Posted by makobuilders

Weird thing is that I've always had more trouble with big seas rather than strong winds. Even in small boats.

Worst winds I've encountered were in Tampa Bay when I got hit by a waterspout. That was a fun 30 seconds!

That's what might have happened to the shrimp boat off the coast of GA. The captain was talking to his wife and said something about a waterspout, the phone went quiet and she heard nothing more. I'm with you in worrying more about seas than wind but then you and I are both in powerboats.