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Old 29-03-2013, 16:10   #61
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Originally Posted by endoftheroad View Post
Out of 100 people I bet about half of one person drag a line, tripline whatever.
Dinghy...
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Old 29-03-2013, 16:37   #62
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Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

Seaworthy

I'm sorry to have been so wordy, it seems you've only had time to skim.

In my first, least wordy post, I did try to explain that I see this as a backup -- not an alternative in ANY way -- to clipping on.

<<I set it up (hi-vis, knotted line, handle at end, trip to release helm) and then take all the same precautions I would take if I hadn't set it up. >>

Other people seem to think I'm telling them to do the same.
Or worry that I lack the strength of character to do the bit in bold font.

It would be nice to be able to reassure them on these points, but I don't really feel the need.

And I stick to describing what I do, not because I have delusions of my importance, but because I don't presume to judge what's right for others.


I tend to rig this backup at times when :

1) I haven't sailed for a while
2) I haven't found my sea legs yet
3) I'm on a boat which isn't set up for solo handling
4) I'm below par or have a funny feeling in my water

I don't pretend it's always easy to apply, particularly on big and/or fancy boats. And I fully understand it will be of limited interest to most people, especially people who don't sail alone.


However, if setting up a rudder/steering system from scratch, it can relatively easily be designed in.

And because it's an optional backup to a backup (clipping on), it doesn't have to be perfect or infallible

Not to my way of thinking.
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Old 29-03-2013, 17:02   #63
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Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

Thanks Kettlewell and Thinwater for the discussion of the pantomime Tinkerbelle idea.

I too had thought of this idea, much as Kettlewell describes, then discounted it, much as Thinwater describes.

But it does strike me as perhaps having a more limited but useful application on a well-crewed boat, in specialised conditions where a tricky job has to be done on the bow - perhaps to do with tending to (say, chafing problems) with a parachute, or even bottom-anchoring operations, in open waters, in a survival context.*

Once again, as a backup to the usual clipping on, but in extreme situations - say the jacklines have been compromised, or there's the need to repeatedly switch attachment points, and particularly where time is of the essence.

I visualise a reliable other person at the winch, acting as a minder and line tender, to keep the halyard "on belay", but not taking any weight unless asked to.

If the pulpit is undamaged and of offshore-suitable robustness, my idea would be, on reaching the bow, to unclip, pass the halyard through it from above and in front, then reattach to the harness -- given that the risk in this situation is of being swept aft.

Halyards on a cruising boat should be extra long for use winching MoBs back on board, in an ideal world, so this would give some scope for coming aft without unclipping.


*I think the idea is positively dangerous when there's any prospect of capsize - at least up until the halyard is re-led through a low lead point - which is why I limit my interest to situations where the boat is held rigorously head-on to the seas.


A similar idea could also be considered when working off the stern, using a main halyard or topping lift - say setting up an emergency steering system, or repairing a vane gear, provided once again that there was no propect of capsize.

It makes it a doddle to get the person back on board if they do slip in. (which even a conventional harness cannot prevent, in this situation). However at the stern it would work best with a harness allowing for rear attachment, below the nape of the neck.
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Old 29-03-2013, 17:08   #64
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Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

SnowP

Dinghy?
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Old 29-03-2013, 19:28   #65
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SnowP

Dinghy?
Yep.. I normally tow my hard dink in sheltered waters. Should be easy to set up on a long floating line, with a trip release for the windvane.
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Old 30-03-2013, 10:14   #66
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Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

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This was posted earlier in the year.
Solo Man Overboard Drill - YouTube
I just replied to that video with these questions:

"A useful demo. I would like to know (without having to read through the comments, your point of sail, heel angle, wind and sea state and SOG for that particular test and any subsequent tests as I think this would aid or retard your ability to haul yourself up in a solo situation."

In other words, those conditions looked benign to me. Much more than that and I think that guy would have been in great difficulties.
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Old 30-03-2013, 13:44   #67
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Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

Here's a way to pull yourself up a line using your legs (much stronger than arms). Hold on with your hands but don't try to pull yet. Bend your knees and draw them up toward your chest. Wrap one foot around the line so that you can use the other foot to clamp the line against your ankle. Then straighten your legs while pulling with your arms. Repeat. I have done this many times to climb ropes; probably harder while being dragged through the water. Somebody in warmer water than mine please try it and report back.
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Old 30-03-2013, 15:49   #68
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Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

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sounds like a good way to troll for sharks.
Indeed!:
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: YOU ARE NEVER REALLY ALONE ON THE OCEAN
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Old 30-03-2013, 16:09   #69
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Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

Just getting back to the boat is half the battle. Then you have to get on. Some boats like mine have a lot of free board which helps prevent swim up intruders. But, on occasion I"ll jumped in for a swim at anchor and forgot to deploy the ladder The first time it was difficult to climb up even when the boat was not moving. Now I have a trick using the boarding ladder extension to release it and also plan to rig a line I can access while in the water if it happens again. But, I agree the best advice is
Never get outa the boat - YouTube
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Old 06-04-2013, 15:39   #70
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Cool Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

I am no sailor. but, powerboat racers all have lines from their body to a kill switch. Should bad things happen, the boat dies in the water. Maybe something similar to disable the craft, be it sail or motor ?



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This is the key: tensioning the self-steering so that it disengages when you fall off. It's somewhat an argument for windvane and tiller, I suppose...it won't work so well with an autopilot and wheel, unless you propose to carry one of those space-age Garmin "helming" wristwatches, I suppose!

I have heard (but not tried) the idea of the solo sailor tying a bit of light line not as a tether (clearly, but another debate) but as a trigger to disengage the self-steering. How practical this is...and why solo sailors would ever be off the tether...are other questions.

Even an indifferent swimmer (with a PFD, of course) should be able to catch up, either by outright swimming or by "climbing up the line" to a boat that has conveniently rounded up into irons. Of course, the other small boat trick involves a low freeboard...on a bigger boat, you're going to want a second line down to the WL, the one that unfolds the boarding ladder.
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Old 07-04-2013, 08:33   #71
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Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

Sure, although it would have to be more or less customized to every sailboat. Experimentation would be required, and I'm pretty sure it would be less complex a rig to get a tiller-steered boat to round up into irons than a wheel-steered.
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Old 08-04-2013, 07:24   #72
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I,m sorry but falling over board and holding a line even with a knot in it sounds crazy. Just this past Friday, my wife and I set sail in 20knot winds 1hr later we were in a 3 to 4 ft rough chop following sea. The wind climbed to 25knots with gust of 30. Under just bare pole it was like riding a bronco. At one point we pictch poled 30deg. So even if you could grab on to a line the jerking of the boat and the heavy chop would ware you out. Now in calm weather maybe. It would be very unlikely you would not make it back to the boat. I stay strapped in when the crap hits the fan. I believe in sticking with the boat while it stays afloat.

I would love to hear of a real story where the trip line work for some one.
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Old 08-04-2013, 07:30   #73
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pirate Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

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Originally Posted by Autumns Wind View Post
I,m sorry but falling over board and holding a line even with a knot in it sounds crazy. Just this past Friday, my wife and I set sail in 20knot winds 1hr later we were in a 3 to 4 ft rough chop following sea. The wind climbed to 25knots with gust of 30. Under just bare pole it was like riding a bronco. At one point we pictch poled 30deg. So even if you could grab on to a line the jerking of the boat and the heavy chop would ware you out. Now in calm weather maybe. It would be very unlikely you would not make it back to the boat. I stay strapped in when the crap hits the fan. I believe in sticking with the boat while it stays afloat.

I would love to hear of a real story where the trip line work for some one.
I think you'd need to find some really old books by sailors...
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Old 08-04-2013, 10:40   #74
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Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

I've read this thread with interest, but so far have been disappointed. Not only can nobody come up with an instance where this technique saved lives, they can't even come up with a situation where it worked. I'm thinking of putting my efforts into a mob system that works with AIS. At least I have heard of that working.
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Old 08-04-2013, 10:56   #75
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Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

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When using handlines and tethers in rough weather you pull UPWARDS to keep your feet on the deck (anytime I see someone pushing down on life lines I know I'm watching a lubber).
tw, this is one of the best descriptions of the use of lifelines I've ever seen. Thanks. So many folks misread the meaning and use of "lifelines" that's it's become disappointing at best, silly at worst. They still cling to the odd notion that they are there to keep you from falling off the boat. After years of reading about failing and rebedding stanchions, it's strange to me that folks think they can use them for any kind of "hit hard" safety. I just use mine as guides for a light handhold and make sure my feet are firmly planted and my balance is based on being as low as necessary for the conditions. Pulling UP makes great sense. Thanks again.
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