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Old 28-03-2013, 19:57   #31
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Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

Its a complete waste of time.

ditto. Hogwash!
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Old 28-03-2013, 20:03   #32
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Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
The fact that it might not work does not, to me, detract from the fact that it might.
Yes, it does. Because the odds it will work are incredibly low in any breeze and not all people will approach it as you did. It's too much like chasing after Laetrile in place of real medication.
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Old 28-03-2013, 22:30   #33
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To go off topic slightly. A big concern to me of conventional harness jacklines is the possibility of being stuck alongside not able to get aboard or wake anyone.

In theory maybe a simple line to the mast so that if you fall you end up just trailing behind the stern. Then you can reach the trip release for the windvane and the trip release for the boarding ladder... What have I forgotten? Or what other solutions are out there?
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Old 28-03-2013, 22:52   #34
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Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

20 years or so ago , there was a product on the market that was a tiny transmitter that hooked onto your belt or sleeve and went to a receiver that was connected to the boats ignition system or fuel shut off. If the transmitter got more than 60 or 80 feet from the receiver, it would shut the boat down. It was advertized for the single handed fishermen, but I dont know why it would not work perfect on a sailboat for killing the engine or the autopilot, or even to a release mechanism for the vane. Maybe fisherman supply stores still sell that sort of thing?_____Grant.
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Old 29-03-2013, 00:02   #35
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Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

This was posted earlier in the year.
Solo Man Overboard Drill - YouTube
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Old 29-03-2013, 00:03   #36
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Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

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Yes, it does. Because the odds it will work are incredibly low in any breeze and not all people will approach it as you did. It's too much like chasing after Laetrile in place of real medication.
I think you must be responding to someone elses post and quoted mine by accident
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Old 29-03-2013, 00:47   #37
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Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

I got It!

Rig a parachute storm anchor to be deployed off the stern with its rode tried to the bow. Use its floating recovery line and buoy as a trailing trip line.

If you go over the side grab the trip line and deploy the storm anchor.

If you get got in a storm throw something over the side that is attached to the trip line to create enough drag to deploy the storm anchor.

Problem solved!

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Old 29-03-2013, 04:22   #38
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Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

I will be adding a tailing line, except it is to a life ring with carpet patches attached to it. Something for Boo to go for if she slips off while under way.
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Old 29-03-2013, 05:59   #39
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Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

I'm puzzled by the number of people queuing up here to say

"this'll never work; you'll never get to the line" ...

.... and frankly I'm feeling a bit impatient.

The people who are most outspoken and dogmatic about what doesn't work are often simply revealing what they haven't tried. It's like deja vu all over again, to quote YB - but he wasn't talking about the www.

Let's first set aside the following:

People who can't swim; people who got knocked unconscious; people who are legally blind; situations where the water temperature causes cardiac arrest, or the sea is tumbling with thunderous, shock-like cataracts ... and other such.

Frankly, all these hypothetical MOBs are stuffed, regardless of whether there's a tripline, a squadron of coastguards waiting in the wings, or whatever.

Secondly, let's set aside whether you "Should" have fallen overboard.
Nobody "Should" fall overboard.

But despite best efforts (and notice I'm not putting that in quotes),
people DO occasionally fall overboard.

Very occasionally ... but for those who do, that's a small consolation.


OK: you're in the water, get over it : there's a tripline which will stop the boat if you can yank it.

Let me spell out how to find it, then you can judge whether you have a fighting chance.

If you fall overboard: orient yourself: get the water out of your eyes: turn to face the boat: swim at right angles towards the boat, or where it would have been if you'd been quicker to do what I just said.

If you took your time, for whatever reason, don't swim towards where the boat is NOW: swim at right angles to its heading, across the wake.

Don't be a smartarse and duck under the waves doing breast-stroke: swim spashily and superficially, overarm or even butterflyishly, taking short pulls. Unless the boat is as beamy as an IMOCA 60, you haven't got far to go. You'll know when you get to the line.

If you're quick / long boat / slow boat / fell off bow: take your time and collect yourself, we don't want you arriving early and head-butting the topsides.

How hard was that?

OK, yes, there might be problems.

What say you went over the stern, and you don't remember which side of the line (or the boat's yawing so hard that you might have crossed over or under it)

Firstly, try not to go over the stern. Ideally you should have TWO harness lines on if you're working at the stern. However, **** happens.

So: I'd be inclined to play this by ear. Hard to make a single plan ahead of time on this one, but the line will be REALLY close.

Don't Panic. Probably pays, once you have your bearings, to turn your back on the boat and stretch out with both arms while you watch, but don't try to move until you have a plan.

There should be hi-vis fluoro webbing tucked through the lay of the line at intervals. Also, the handle (and the knots) will probably be kicking up some spray, giving your eye a starting point, and hopefully calming you down by showing you've still got plenty of time to find the line.

If all else fails (say it's too dark), you may still be able to make out the wake; generally it's more prominent at night than by day.

Swim towards the middle of the wake, or your best guess, and then past it a few strong strokes, then the other way twice as far. Still no line? Repeat but swim further before turning. I'd stop in the middle and make a last attempt to see the handle at this point.

A few suggestions about the line:

1) If the boat's going at speed, rope burns can be a problem, even in the water.
If you've practiced (especially if you've done quite a bit of waterskiing) you'll know how to 'hand-over-hand' along the rope, applying progressively more muscle to bring yourself closer to the speed and direction of the boat, before you yank, in case the first yank doesn't trigger the trip: you don't want the shock to jerk the line out of your hands.

When setting the system up: Consider coiling up some extra line where it passes over the sternrail, and using 'rotten cotton' stoppings on the coil, so it breaks easily when you yank it.
That lets you get a firm grip because the line will temporarily go slack, so that when the line comes tight again, you'll definitely trip the helm or autopilot or mainsheet, or whatever you've decided to rig it to trip.

2) There should be a row of knots, maybe six (or more, for a fast boat) along the line. They should get closer together getting towards the handle end.

These help you see the line by kicking up turbulence as they pull out of the faces of the waves, and help you grab it without slipping.

3) If the boat's going slow, you might have to yank quite hard, because the trip will need to have been set up so it doesn't trip purely from high boatspeed.

General advice: If you're not confident in the water, try to put in some time at beaches, gradually pushing yourself into slightly more boisterous situations and eventually in surf if possible, but not with the aim of being a hotshot swimmer or bodysurfer, rather focussing on ways of orienting yourself, settling yourself down (ignoring the apparent drama and instead learning useful skills like taking stock of drift using shore transits etc).

This will build a habitual ability to function in a disorienting seaway. But it will also stand you in good stead even if you only slip out of the dinghy in a tidal estuary.


If you want some ideas on how to rig the trip mechanism, don't take any notice of the naysayers; they'll get bored and drift off somewhere else:

Post a question describing the setup of your helm or whatever, and your first thoughts.


ON EDIT: OK, I forgot about multihulls. Perhaps you could tow two triplines: one for each wake. Trimarans I guess as for monohulls: You shouldn't be falling off the amas.
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Old 29-03-2013, 07:11   #40
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Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
I'm puzzled by the number of people queuing up here to say

"this'll never work; you'll never get to the line" ...

.... and frankly I'm feeling a bit impatient.

The people who are most outspoken and dogmatic about what doesn't work are often simply revealing what they haven't tried. It's like deja vu all over again, to quote YB - but he wasn't talking about the www.

Let's first set aside the following:

People who can't swim; people who got knocked unconscious; people who are legally blind; situations where the water temperature causes cardiac arrest, or the sea is tumbling with thunderous, shock-like cataracts ... and other such.

Frankly, all these hypothetical MOBs are stuffed, regardless of whether there's a tripline, a squadron of coastguards waiting in the wings, or whatever.

Secondly, let's set aside whether you "Should" have fallen overboard.
Nobody "Should" fall overboard.

But despite best efforts (and notice I'm not putting that in quotes),
people DO occasionally fall overboard.

Very occasionally ... but for those who do, that's a small consolation.


OK: you're in the water, get over it : there's a tripline which will stop the boat if you can yank it.

Let me spell out how to find it, then you can judge whether you have a fighting chance.

If you fall overboard: orient yourself: get the water out of your eyes: turn to face the boat: swim at right angles towards the boat, or where it would have been if you'd been quicker to do what I just said.

If you took your time, for whatever reason, don't swim towards where the boat is NOW: swim at right angles to its heading, across the wake.

Don't be a smartarse and duck under the waves doing breast-stroke: swim spashily and superficially, overarm or even butterflyishly, taking short pulls. Unless the boat is as beamy as an IMOCA 60, you haven't got far to go. You'll know when you get to the line.

If you're quick / long boat / slow boat / fell off bow: take your time and collect yourself, we don't want you arriving early and head-butting the topsides.

How hard was that?

OK, yes, there might be problems.

What say you went over the stern, and you don't remember which side of the line (or the boat's yawing so hard that you might have crossed over or under it)

Firstly, try not to go over the stern. Ideally you should have TWO harness lines on if you're working at the stern. However, **** happens.

So: I'd be inclined to play this by ear. Hard to make a single plan ahead of time on this one, but the line will be REALLY close.

Don't Panic. Probably pays, once you have your bearings, to turn your back on the boat and stretch out with both arms while you watch, but don't try to move until you have a plan.

There should be hi-vis fluoro webbing tucked through the lay of the line at intervals. Also, the handle (and the knots) will probably be kicking up some spray, giving your eye a starting point, and hopefully calming you down by showing you've still got plenty of time to find the line.

If all else fails (say it's too dark), you may still be able to make out the wake; generally it's more prominent at night than by day.

Swim towards the middle of the wake, or your best guess, and then past it a few strong strokes, then the other way twice as far. Still no line? Repeat but swim further before turning. I'd stop in the middle and make a last attempt to see the handle at this point.

A few suggestions about the line:

1) If the boat's going at speed, rope burns can be a problem, even in the water.
If you've practiced (especially if you've done quite a bit of waterskiing) you'll know how to 'hand-over-hand' along the rope, applying progressively more muscle to bring yourself closer to the speed and direction of the boat, before you yank, in case the first yank doesn't trigger the trip: you don't want the shock to jerk the line out of your hands.

When setting the system up: Consider coiling up some extra line where it passes over the sternrail, and using 'rotten cotton' stoppings on the coil, so it breaks easily when you yank it.
That lets you get a firm grip because the line will temporarily go slack, so that when the line comes tight again, you'll definitely trip the helm or autopilot or mainsheet, or whatever you've decided to rig it to trip.

2) There should be a row of knots, maybe six (or more, for a fast boat) along the line. They should get closer together getting towards the handle end.

These help you see the line by kicking up turbulence as they pull out of the faces of the waves, and help you grab it without slipping.

3) If the boat's going slow, you might have to yank quite hard, because the trip will need to have been set up so it doesn't trip purely from high boatspeed.

General advice: If you're not confident in the water, try to put in some time at beaches, gradually pushing yourself into slightly more boisterous situations and eventually in surf if possible, but not with the aim of being a hotshot swimmer or bodysurfer, rather focussing on ways of orienting yourself, settling yourself down (ignoring the apparent drama and instead learning useful skills like taking stock of drift using shore transits etc).

This will build a habitual ability to function in a disorienting seaway. But it will also stand you in good stead even if you only slip out of the dinghy in a tidal estuary.


If you want some ideas on how to rig the trip mechanism, don't take any notice of the naysayers; they'll get bored and drift off somewhere else:

Post a question describing the setup of your helm or whatever, and your first thoughts.


ON EDIT: OK, I forgot about multihulls. Perhaps you could tow two triplines: one for each wake. Trimarans I guess as for monohulls: You shouldn't be falling off the amas.
Theory is all well and good. For everyone in warmer waters give it a go (with competent company on board LOL). Northerners will have to wait a few months (although here in Crete I have just started swimming again).

It is actually extremely difficult to do. A good friend who singlehands most of the time usually trailed a line until he attempted several times jumping over when he had crew with him, to see how easy it would be to grab the line and pull himself back on board. He was a fit bloke and strong swimmer. At anything more than a couple of knots he had absolutely no hope. And that was without the element of surprise. He stopped trailing a line.

Give it a go!
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Old 29-03-2013, 08:02   #41
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Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

Seaworthy:

I guess you, too, missed the bit in this (echoing other posts) where it says

<<there's a tripline which will stop the boat if you can yank it.>>

Nobody can pull themselves up to a moving boat. I think we all agree on that.
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Old 29-03-2013, 08:10   #42
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Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

Hi everyone, I can tell people that a boat moving at around 6 knots with a line draging you should be able to drag yourslef up no problem in shorts but with weather gear">foul weather gear it would be much harder. Grabing the line would be the hard part, I have been draged trying to do barefoot deepwater starts & 6 knots is about idle speed & then they gas it to speed, but I got a handle!! Now add cold water & you won`t last long.. I am a water skier & I have jumped out at 40 mph just to see what it was like, have fallen at barefoot speed many times ( 38mph for me) & am one of the few that could pull myslef back up on a tube without the driver slowing down, point is I have a VERY good grip & I am not sure I could grab the line & pull myslef up with foul weather gear on.. better be a long line with a handle, by the time you tumble & get it together at 6 knots the boat would be a good distance away & a hard pull to get back if you don`t have it rigged to stop or turn.. Where I live (FL) It would be ringing the dinner bell for sharks... Ever hear the term,, Keelhauled!! There was a reason they did that,, ding==== CHOMP!
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Old 29-03-2013, 08:22   #43
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Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

Kita

Refer message to Seaworthy, above your post
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Old 29-03-2013, 10:18   #44
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Re: Have Tailing Lines Ever Saved A Solo Sailor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
Seaworthy:

I guess you, too, missed the bit in this (echoing other posts) where it says

<<there's a tripline which will stop the boat if you can yank it.>>

Nobody can pull themselves up to a moving boat. I think we all agree on that.
This could work with wind vane steering, but fewer and fewer cruising boats are using them these days and even those that do, use an autopilot some of the time as well. With an autopilot it is much more complicated. You would need to set up the trip line to point the boat into wind (tiller hard over would not always be adequate).

The trip line would also need to cut the motor if it was running.

Yes, a sea anchor could be attached to a trip line. This would need to be rigged permanently though.

Lots of possibilities, but even putting aside the issue of reliably reaching the trip line, how practical is it to cover all bases?

If going to all these extremes why not just clip on each time you emerge from down below?
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Old 29-03-2013, 10:38   #45
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Andrew, nice post.
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