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Old 30-01-2010, 10:09   #76
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Maxingout makes an interesting point. Catamarans do not suffer from the same problems in heavy weather as high free board mono hulls. I have found them very comfortable, relatively speaking. They don't sail to windward well but in heavy weather they don't sail badly, either.

Still a mono-guy. Our little boat is about one catamaran hull wide and works fine. Monoran?
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Old 18-02-2010, 11:22   #77
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Well as some of you know I am looking. And yes it sure is influencing my decision!

Went through the Gulf from fla to new orleans on my uncles British Vancouver 32 and saw some weather and waves. Stern quartering sea he called it...I called it "Holy ****!".

Might be more comfortable boats out there but I felt good knowing that as long as I held on tight all would be fine. From what I understand it is a pretty tough boat.

So now that I am looking I think back to that experience and I want to get something tough too...can't swim that far :-)
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Old 18-02-2010, 13:08   #78
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From Don Street's Ocean Sailing Yacht Volume II'
"...because of the more gently curved waterline aft when heeled, double enders usually have extreme weather helm when well heeled down going to windward."
Comments?
Makes sense maybe but... so far... limited experience, some sailing force 4 max in my double-ender (slightly modified Tahiti Ketch style hull) I have noticed far less a tendancy for weather helm than my last boat, also somewhat slab sided but with long overhangs and a full curve to the bilges aft. That thing was a beast to weather... reef early, reef often!
Overhangs potentially as much a factor in weather helm as pointy ends?
Looking forward to more time with this boat to get a better sense of stuff like this.
Danger Zone, There is a Dreadnought 32 listed on Sailboat Listings - sailboats for sale for $29,000. (not the 5,000 one) Very nicely finished and from the description not that heavily sailed, for a pretty resonable price. I like the Dreadnought so far(check out the brochure description in my profile pics). Hull construction is very robust and given the traditional design good sailors ... there aren't many around but the are a good value usually when the owner built cabins have been well done.
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Old 18-02-2010, 13:50   #79
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In 50 years of sailing with delivery boats cruising and racing yachts I have seen more bad weather in yachts under 30ft than above and can say hand on heart that as one of our friends said above if it dont let water in you have the best boat. I also saw on one yacht that I delivered with an owner that he had had eye bolts put in the bulkheads so that ropes fore and aft could be attached in bad weather and I must say they were great the right hight and stopped us geting knocked around.
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Old 18-02-2010, 13:53   #80
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weather and lee helm

I have no idea if this will work at all. An image is supposed to show up which explains weather and lee helm when heeled. I invite remarks for better or worse!

Hull shape is not the issue, the separation of the CE and CLR is the issue.

In words. The CE of a heeled boat is to leeward and forward of the CLR. The drag from the CLR is overcome by the thrust from the CE. This tries to twist the boat to windward, weather helm. To balance that, the designer has the fore and aft location of the CLR slightly ahead of the CLR. The pressure to leeward of the CE ahead of the CLR forces the bow down, overcoming the weather helm twist from the CE.

Too much lead, lee helm. Too little and weather helm. More heel is usually more weather helm.
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Old 18-02-2010, 19:50   #81
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What happens when you reef?
Sloop:
-mainsail CE moves forward and down
-roller furling CE moves forward and, is it up or down?
Hard to balance out all that helm stuff.

A Cutter rig is better for control of all of the CE & CLR stuff.

Yawl and Ketch, any combo of CE and CLR depending on sail combo and reefs, especially if you have an inner forestay.
-it's possible to have a low CE with little sail (jib & jigger) or high CE (full main) to control roll in short steep seas with strong winds.
-easy to balance.
-you don't even need a rudder, steer with the Mizzen, no need to worry about loosing the rudder.
-heaving to is easy and simple, less pressure on the rudder as the mizzen does most of the work.
How the mizzen is supported by the stays is important for heavy weather use.
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Old 18-02-2010, 19:56   #82
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there are many roads to rome
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Old 19-02-2010, 05:54   #83
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mesquakee
apology for the short reply but an interruption occurred.

One of the best analysis of your question is in the Pardy's book Storm Tactics.

One of the worst conditions, in my experience is when reaching in heavy air in a boat that wants to "steer herself." Interestingly, the more steerable the boat, the gentler the ride. Heavy boats with small rudders are a struggle.

my opinion, for what it is worth
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Old 23-02-2015, 19:48   #84
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Re: Has Heavy-Weather Experience Influenced Your Choice of Boat?

I have been given a boat by God- no, really, I have- and it seems to be a good heavy weather boat. My problem is, I'm very green. Only have 40 or 50 hrs. experience on a Coronado 25 prior to this boat. It's not ready to sail yet. Needs work, a lot of it. The mast has never been stepped on it, although, I've been stepped on many times.

The vessel I received 'from on high' is a 1984 Jason 35, a Ted brewer design. It's a double-ender, cutter rigged boat with a very small cockpit and small capacity foot well.

Talked to Brewer on the phone, great guy, and he told me the weather helm problems on the earlier runs were corrected by the time mine was built. They moved the mast fwd by a couple of feet as the solution.

So, what are the thoughts of you good and knowledgable people on that particular vessel.

Thanks, great info from you guys and gals.

p.s. Anyone know the hull speed on the Jason 35? and I'll take my answer off the air.
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Old 23-02-2015, 20:46   #85
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Re: Has Heavy-Weather Experience Influenced Your Choice of Boat?

Jace,
Reviving a 5 year old thread might not get you the detailed answers you're looking for, especially this thread as your questions are regarding a specific boat and its specific peculiarities....perhaps starting a new thread asking about the Jason 35, with a appropriate thread title...

But, 'til then....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jace View Post
I have been given a boat by God- no, really, Needs work, a lot of it.

The vessel I received 'from on high' is a 1984 Jason 35, a Ted brewer design.

Talked to Brewer on the phone, great guy, and he told me the weather helm problems on the earlier runs were corrected by the time mine was built. They moved the mast fwd by a couple of feet as the solution.

So, what are the thoughts of you good and knowledgable people on that particular vessel.

p.s. Anyone know the hull speed on the Jason 35? and I'll take my answer off the air.
Here are some pages of info on the Jason 35....

JASON 35 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Ted Brewer Yacht Design

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ned-54121.html


And, theoretical hull speed would be 7kts....
Hull Speed (of a full displ. vessel) = 1.34 X the square root of LWL
(but understand this is not taking into account the slight increase in waterline length, when a sailboat is heeled-over...)

Perhaps a bit more if heeled over, with a good wind, on a beam reach....but not sure she carries enough Sail Area for that???




I hope this helps...

John
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Old 24-02-2015, 01:51   #86
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Re: Has Heavy-Weather Experience Influenced Your Choice of Boat?

My first offshore trip was fron Nelson New Zealand to Fiji second night out wave went through double reefed main,yacht had teak decks so leaked like a seive,water blasted down dorade vents and we had to hand steer blew 2 more sails before rounding North Cape to whangaparapara harbour where we spent a week getting boat dry and sails repaired.My yacht is steel with steel decks read no leaks,anyone who says glass or wooden boats dont leak hasnt sailed around here,I have an aires windvane,strong cutter rig,tiny windows and screw on covers for my dorade vents.When it gets rough I can now climb into a dry bunk and wait it out.
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Old 24-02-2015, 06:42   #87
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Re: Has Heavy-Weather Experience Influenced Your Choice of Boat?

Thanks, guys, that helps.
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Old 24-02-2015, 08:50   #88
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Re: Has Heavy-Weather Experience Influenced Your Choice of Boat?

We have a Brewer Murray 33, steel. I've had a bit of heavy weather in her, not much. I single hand her a lot. She is not fast or weatherly in a blow. She is safe and strong.

Ted designs a fine boat. If built right you may well have a good platform to work with.

Hulls are one thing, finish and accutruments another. No sense gussying up a weak tub. But the design is likely to be first rate.
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Old 24-02-2015, 09:00   #89
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pirate Re: Has Heavy-Weather Experience Influenced Your Choice of Boat?

Not at all.. just the type of weather I take her out in..
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Old 24-02-2015, 09:26   #90
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Re: Has Heavy-Weather Experience Influenced Your Choice of Boat?

Thanks, hpeer, much appreciated.
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