Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-05-2014, 11:27   #46
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,334
Re: Has 'Boosterism' Become Rampant in Sailing Media?

After not subscribing to the sailing mags for a couple of decades I decided to subscribe again a couple years ago. ($10 per year deal!) Although packed with ads, I believe they have improved some in their content. I find much of it more on point than in the past; Things like boats lost, the story and breakdowns that occurred. One had an informative article on storm sails last fall. Actually polling cruisers with tens of thousands of miles under their belts on what they carry now that they are "matured" etc. Very few now carry a trysail. I know I wouldnt. So, for $20 a year I find the two mags quite good... and I can read them soaking in the bathtub!
__________________

__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 13:36   #47
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,305
Re: Has 'Boosterism' Become Rampant in Sailing Media?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Crab View Post
You'd like to think so but what we've ended up with is a group of boat owners who will argue to the death that their boat is just as good as ...
No what we really have is a group of people who insist that they know more about a given boat than the owners of the boat.

BTW - when I got my current boat I paid $19.95 for a review from Practical Sailor thinking their review would be different that the type of reviews found in the mags (since they don't have advertising). Thier review read pretty much just like any other review. Then again maybe it is just a good boat (not that it would ever be accepted as such my a forum).
__________________

__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 14:20   #48
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Port Ludlow Wa
Boat: Makela,Ingrid38,Idora
Posts: 1,973
Re: Has 'boosterism' become rampant in sailing media?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
It was ever such!

Forums are really not the answer, although they are entertaining. Forums like this are just ways to monazite the mob. They don't care about the content, as long as it keeps coming.
I might be a lair, but I'm not all mobbed up.
__________________
IdoraKeeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 14:40   #49
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,022
Re: Has 'boosterism' become rampant in sailing media?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IdoraKeeper View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
It was ever such!

Forums are really not the answer, although they are entertaining. Forums like this are just ways to monazite the mob. They don't care about the content, as long as it keeps coming.
I might be a lair, but I'm not all mobbed up.
Oops, damn auto-correct. That was supposed to me "monetize". I wasn't really talking about how to turn the mob into "a reddish-brown phosphate mineral containing rare earth metals."
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 14:50   #50
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Port Ludlow Wa
Boat: Makela,Ingrid38,Idora
Posts: 1,973
Re: Has 'boosterism' become rampant in sailing media?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Oops, damn auto-correct. That was supposed to me "monetize". I wasn't really talking about how to turn the mob into "a reddish-brown phosphate mineral containing rare earth metals."
I see you got the joke. I really miss ol Don's posts, excellent sense of humour. Either he went sailing or that Hunter fell apart on him. Ho ho....
__________________
IdoraKeeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 15:01   #51
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,385
Re: Has 'Boosterism' Become Rampant in Sailing Media?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post

There is truly no resource in boating with extensive personal reviews based on experiences of owners.
I have found that the internet is a valuable resource for boaters IF one looks in the right places.

This is one of them. Others are sailboatowners and ybw.

Even more important, I believe, are the one-design association websites and "brand" association websites. The purpose of these forums is to discuss issues with existing boats. The better ones incorporate discussions of new boats made by those boat builders as they come out of the factory, new designs.

Most of them are available from simple Google searches. If Boyo Dude bought a new boat, maybe he wouldn't read the XYZ Yacht Association website, but, really, he should, because boats are evolutionary, and the systems are remarkably the same from boat to boat by one builder and from boat to boat across many builders.

He'd be a fool not to, but there are too many Boyo Dudes out there who wouldn't read even a magazine. And some particular boat builder buyers are more consistent in their "avoidance" of participating in or even starting internet websites. Those skippers are the real losers.

The engine I have on my boat was installed by lots of different builders.

The freshwater system and water heater on my boat was installed in hundreds of different kinds of boats.

The list goes on.

What we've found is that a steadily decreasing % of owners bother to read the material. And much of it, I believe, is safety oriented.

You don't need to be an electrical expert to learn that fusing is important at batteries.

You don't need to be an engine expert to learn that the wiring harnesses installed on almost all production boats are a real weak link in the chain.

But we keep hearing/reading the same "twenty six questions" from new boat owners. We keep suggesting that a good search engine (Google, DuckDuckGo, or any of the others) applies to boating as well as what's the best car or dishwasher to buy.

Tue, there's no Consumers Report in the boating industry, but the information IS out there.

As I mentioned in the "What did you learn?" thread, "now, if all we could do is get them to do their "homework and research..."

On our forum, active in an email List from 1987 and on "forum software" since 2001, we've amassed an incredible amount of information, some specific to our boats, but much applicable to almost any recreational sailboat. It's one of many like this.

The new C355, which shares our builder and general interior layout, started their own Google Group and have shared teething pains. But, of the 100 hulls built, only about 20% of the skippers participate.

That's the thing that amazes me.

Sailboat rags were always rags, but deteriorated over time (except for GOB) have for those of us around long enough (you all know who you are! ) the mags became repetitious. PBO remains pretty good for content and honest in reviews of both new and old boats. Don't know how they do it, but I sure wish more, and ANY over here would do so.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 16:12   #52
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Paradise
Boat: Various
Posts: 2,359
Re: Has 'Boosterism' Become Rampant in Sailing Media?

It really amounts to intelligent use of information. You are bombarded with it in today's world. I have a cousin who believes the last thing he heard regardless of what it was or who said it. Wonderful and intelligent guy, but naive beyond compare. He doesn't filter information well. I believe it ties to him being so trustful of people and trustworthy himself.

I'm more a skeptic. I read something and I don't instantly buy off on it. I correlate it with other knowledge and experience. Still I love reading boating sites, love boat reviews even though they're all good. And I do still gather information. Maybe it's the test data given me speeds and fuel usage at each. Maybe it's when the reviewer just barely slips in a comment like, "headroom in the master stateroom is 6'3" so a little close for someone 6' as I am." Well, as I'm taller than 6'3" that becomes vital information to me. I read a glowing review on a boat I was considering but the reviewer made it clear that he wouldn't have a lower helm as most owners didn't, just upper. He then said something about the slant of the windshield would impact the visibility from a lower helm. Well, I wanted a lower helm, and not one with bad visibility. I read that cruising is 7.5 knots on a boat and know whether that's something I'd like or not.

I love to read about places others go. And I do read about problems people have, hoping to learn and avoid them myself. One site I visit that has tons of glowing reviews did also have an article recently I found interesting on propeller geometry. Another similar site had an interesting video on choosing a raft type.

This is the internet age. Anyone can put anything on the web. I sure hope no one believes everything they read on this site to be true. Well, everything can't be since obviously some leads to arguments. But one must weigh the information. Knowing advertisers influence content in magazines isn't a reason to stop reading them, if you're still enjoying it and getting information you find beneficial.
__________________
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 16:21   #53
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,132
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: Has 'boosterism' become rampant in sailing media?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Oops, damn auto-correct. That was supposed to me "monetize". I wasn't really talking about how to turn the mob into "a reddish-brown phosphate mineral containing rare earth metals."
damn that autocorrect... autocorrect is the enema!
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 18:14   #54
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Paradise
Boat: Various
Posts: 2,359
Re: Has 'boosterism' become rampant in sailing media?

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
damn that autocorrect... autocorrect is the enema!
When we got new phones and hadn't turned the censoring off, my wife texted something quite innocent but obviously the voice recognition decided differently and a word was ****'ed. Now we sat trying to figure out what did our dirty minded voice recognition think she said. What she actually said wasn't close to any problematic word. We never figured it out.
__________________
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 01:08   #55
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
Re: Has 'Boosterism' Become Rampant in Sailing Media?

Interesting case study.

Magazines who knew a product was toxic, yet their hands were tied by threats of legal process

Clearly the author has a stake, but even if it was exaggerated, (and I'm not saying it is) it would be sobering.

A singlehanders fight | Windpilot Blog
__________________
Andrew Troup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 01:59   #56
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
Re: Has 'Boosterism' Become Rampant in Sailing Media?

I'm not personally a fan for condoning, by continuing to patronise, publications who are routinely economical with the truth. That's corrupt practice by those mags, in my book.

I'm also not sure I'm thrilled at the prospect of a world shaped by people saying

"well ... <shrug> what are you gonna do?".

I'm sure it feels like realism, but it sure looks like defeatism.

... and I'm similarly unimpressed by apologism in the vein of

"it's understandable, therefore it's OK",

which to me is confusing explanations with excuses.

(Gosh, that's a lot of -isms !)

And while I'm on a roll: forums like this, I think, are vulnerable to the patrols of self-appointed guard-dogs for brands and features and mindsets.

To me the defining characteristic is that they are not content to disagree with ideas, but feel impelled to attack the people who hold those ideas.

Not because the attack dogs have a lot of credibility, but because they can quite easily frustrate and belittle those who do aspire to share war stories of failures at large, to the point where they drive the tellers of tales away, leaving the arena to those whose share the prevalent preferences in the mass marketplace.

Such guard dogs end up indistinguishable from standard-bearers and shock-troops for the marketing arms of the dominant commercial interests.

But I think there are things we can do, and are doing, about that.

It actually seems to me that the 'guard dog' thing is going through a lull at present - I for one am extremely happy about that.

The mod policies here are effective and vigorous, and it's a rare attack dog, I think, who could muster the self-control to really prosper here.

And it seems to me there are people who will not stand by when "bad stuff goes down".

Right now, it seems to me like quite a strong forum culture, perhaps even heading in the opposite direction to the www at large.
__________________
Andrew Troup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 02:32   #57
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,915
Re: Has 'Boosterism' Become Rampant in Sailing Media?

Andrew, I had a look at Peter's site and he wrote some interesting views on "bluewater sailing vessels". Of particular interest was the vast difference in how information is processed in the USA and Canada compared to Europe and why sailors in each area tend to chose different boats and have vastly different opinions. He believes that the European current rage to choose the new lightly built European boats for offshore cruising is directly linked to how European sailors get information compared to American and Canadians. It is his opinion that American and Canadian sailors are better informed on their choices and in fact on average make better choices in buying offshore boats.
__________________
robert sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 03:08   #58
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
Re: Has 'Boosterism' Become Rampant in Sailing Media?

Yes, although I get the feeling he's a bit less impartial than he considers himself - perhaps a bit inclined to discount modern ideas, purely because they're modern?

And if so, perhaps what he's applauding in the US is reflective of his preference for traditional features?

It's hard to see how, say, French serious cruising boat design (I'm thinking of bluewater boats, often metal, usually retractable appendages) are inherently an inferior choice to the best US deepwater boats, for one. (But here I'm showing my bias, because they're much more to my taste.)

But it does occur to me, if you put the Dalus and OVNIs and Boreals etc aside, maybe there's a lack at the more affordable price point - the sort of gap John Harries is trying to fill (no frills, no nonsense, but not trad)

I'd be interested in your thoughts, for one thing because I don't live in either place.
__________________
Andrew Troup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 03:18   #59
Registered User
 
Blue Crab's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hurricane Highway
Boat: Cal 29
Posts: 3,882
Re: Has 'Boosterism' Become Rampant in Sailing Media?

Thanks for the link. And the hope that this forum may represent a sea change, or at least a modest change for the better, in getting real information out from under obstructionist cronyism and legal heavy-handedness.

Earlier, I believe Capt Sabray made the point that industry "standards" help manufacturers. Indeed they do. And it is likely that those standards are written by folks closely associated with manufacturing. This is seen as normal here in the US of A.

An example I'm going to keep track of is the shore power cord situation. On the one hand we have the industry standard Hubbell setup; SmartPlug on the other. As MaineSail points out Shore Power Cords - SmartPlug vs. 1938 Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com the newcomer SmartPlug is demonstrably better and safer than the industry standard. But that kind of real info is tough to get out there.

That said, the SmartPlug guys have their hands full keeping up with demand. I have ordered the product but delivery is uncertain. And just think of the massive industrial firepower lined up against the newcomer with the better mousetrap! And I believe we all know: an ant can't move a rubber tree plant.
__________________
Blue Crab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 05:09   #60
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: East Berne,NY
Boat: Oyster 435-Prism
Posts: 9
Re: Has 'Boosterism' Become Rampant in Sailing Media?

There is nothing inherently wrong with boosterism, you can always learn something from even the most biased presentation. But if you want information and knowledge that is the most cogent,go to a boatyard where people who are sailing where you want to sail are getting their boats ready for another go. Lend a hand on whatever project is in the works,and you will learn everything (and much more!)you need to know about what works , at least for that sailor. Then modify to suit yourself.
__________________

__________________
Chark is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ramp, sail, sailing

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Has Cruising Become Too Artificial, Too Expensive, Too Regulated ? Piney Our Community 66 26-07-2017 20:01
Saltaire or Scottish Lion Rampant or ? Pelagic Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 4 16-04-2010 16:48
a.collective-media.net knottybuoyz Forum Tech Support & Site Help 4 10-04-2009 09:45
Beware Yachcharterfinder.com and Media Ship Charter alliebdive Europe & Mediterranean 8 16-11-2007 11:51



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:12.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.