Hank On or Furling Head Sails

[Cheechako]

No doubt about it...the 20+ knot , undermanned racers have to use them. But it is my impression that the "Normal" racing boats dont. I dont know how you'd deal with light air, then heavy air without doing inside out headsail changes in a double foil luff. Anyway...as I indicated, I'm a proponant of furling for cruising, but it's not trouble free for sure. But it is as reliable as anything else on a boat! Not sure how you "maintain" the bearings in a Profurl, unless you like taking it apart! You just have to wait and hope it lasts, I never was convinced a fresh water rinse did much.
in general terms: Profurl LC42 extrusion weight (60ft) 69 lbs. (~1225 lb moment) The halyard swivel on mine was huge..not sure of weight... some where betweeen 5-8 lbs? at 68 ft up that alone is about a 500 lb moment. Total=1725 lb moment on a 47 ft boat. Just sayin'... still like the furler!

[ChrisnCate]

I'd ask the furler proponents who cite safety in a blow, what do you do when your furler jams with sail out in those 40 knots you referenced? Climb the mast? Fix the furler with tools in a heaving sea? Untie the sheets in a heaving sea and manually roll the sail? Or maybe it won't unroll, and you need to make way for one reason or another...

Seems to me that the safety argument works against furlers in heavy weather, as you are putting complete faith and total trust in one system that, if failed, can cause some actual safety concerns. When we decided to ditch our furler (last Oct), that very scenario was the catalyst. We were out in a good blow, and the furler let us down with sail out. I had to untie the sheets and manually roll the sail around the foil to get it in (after running a few miles downwind in the wrong direction).

With hank sails, yes, you need to be on deck to change them (it's a sailboat after all), but at least it's a controlled and anticipated bit of "danger" (I don't believe it's dangerous if you are secured and sail changes are typical and part of your sailing routine, but for the sake of the safety argument I'll play along).

Hanks do not fail you, and you can always douse a hanked sail if need be. Especially with a downhaul rigged.

Relying on furlers is akin to relying on your motor. How many people do you see making for the marina in airs, with the main all covered up and the sails and anchors stowed away and unready to be deployed? What happens when the motor fails from one tiny spec of dirt, water etc, and your total faith in that one system creates a dangerous situation... ?

Safety on any boat is an illusion, and the more reliance you put in systems with moving parts, the more likely you are to be caught unprepared.

Simplicity is the safest, imo.

[SaltyMonkey]

The argument doesnt hold up, and I am a hanker. Furlers or hanks are trouble if you dont reef or change sail early enuf. In a 40 knt blow, you would furl much earlier before that wind came up, and go with the inner sail. @ 40 you would be on a storm or inner spectra luff jib.

So, i dont see the issue. Furlers are fine.

[ChrisnCate]

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey

The argument doesnt hold up, and I am a hanker. Furlers or hanks are trouble if you dont reef or change sail early enuf. In a 40 knt blow, you would furl much earlier before that wind came up, and go with the inner sail. @ 40 you would be on a storm or inner spectra luff jib.

So, i dont see the issue. Furlers are fine.

True that you should have anticipated the conditions and been prepared with the right sailplan (if possible of course), but to suggest there is no difference in a system that relies on moving parts, bearings, etc to one that is simply "clipped" (hanked) on a wire is just plain inaccurate.

Furlers have failure points, hanks do not.

[SaltyMonkey]

Hanks fail and have their whole set of issues. furriers have become much more reliable.

I'll go with furlers and won't look back

[ChrisnCate]

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey

Hanks fail and have their whole set of issues. furriers have become much more reliable.

I'll go with furlers and won't look back

What issues do hanks have specifically? How does an entire hanked on sail fail exactly?

How are furlers more reliable than hanks specifically?

Furriers are sellers of fur btw.

[Cheechako]

For safety and simplicity..hanks probably win (although is it safe going forward in a blow?). But let's face it, with furling....you leave port, put the main up, and just unfurl the headsail and your sailing! Hard to beat that!

[S/V Alchemy]

This is like the "manual versus automatic" argument, with a hint of "why bother with a sextant?"

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

But let's face it, with furling....you leave port, put the main up, and just unfurl the headsail and your sailing! Hard to beat that!

Often times wandering around I see a boat with only one sail up. Always the un-furling sail is the one not used. On a few occasions I see a boat motoring when they could be sailing. They invariably have hanked on sails. (or be Catamarans)

I would love a furling main because if I can set that as quick as I can the Genoa would be grand. I think I am a lazy bugger But I only have a set number of heart beats till I die and I don't see why I should waste them on hard work

The other oft put point is that furlers jam. I have never seen a owner sailed boats furler jam. And can only imagine it on an old boat.

If we are meant to change the standing rigging every 10 years (or so) why should the furler last for 20?


Mark

[zeehag]

with my sprit, furling is the only way to use a jib. i do have hank on additional sals and i havent a forestaysail as yet---- plan on htat addition in time.
hanking on , under wild and wet conditions with a sprit is n0t an option as ye are being dunked frequently in seas... goood luck.

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

I have never seen a owner sailed boats furler jam. And can only imagine it on an old boat.

I can imagine it -- it's happened to me, and on a fairly new boat.

One time while unfurling the genoa I didn't have enough tension on the furling line and it developed a bad override. This revealed itself when trying to reef (or furl, I forget) in the Molokai channel in extremely brisk conditions. Problem solved by turning downwind, blanketing the genoa with the main and unfurling then dropping the genoa. Not a huge problem. I've managed to not have an override since.

Second time was when the furling line chafed through and the reefed genoa unrolled in some pretty strong winds. Again, we dropped the sail, I spliced the line, then put things back together. I should have noticed the chafe, which was caused by a shifted fairlead.

But, putting these furler problems in the context of over 22,000 miles of ocean sailing on VALIS, the value of having furling headsails greatly outweighs any disadvantages or problems. I'm glad I have the furlers (on the headsail and staysail).

[zeehag]

we had a problem in the gulf with the furler on my friends boat--- was jammed and i had to go forward to hand turn the rum .... they do jam and they do have common sensical solutions....

[Cheechako]

I've had furler jams. (Line overlapped on the spool. Kinda like a winch override) Also discovered the halyard was wrapped (for how long I dont know!) at the top once. Even though I had a wrap stop furler. stuff happens. Still, I love a furler. This discussion is good...makes people of aware of all the issues with either system. Doesnt have to be a "this is better , that is better" thing at all.... people have to make their own choices...

[zeehag]

when i do get a forestaysail it will be a hank on--i will keep the furler jib..... forestaysail isnt gonna be on my sprit, as is jib roller.

[Andren]

From the many positions on furling vs. hank-on it appears that it boils down to preference. In 42 years of sailing my preference evolved into side by side twin headstays. Most weather may be handled with one or the other bagged jibs. The staysail stay may be left in running position or it may be disconnected from the aft end of the bowsprit and moved 90 deg to starboard, attached to forward shroud tang.