Guns on boats equals 5 years jail time

[Sailing55]

Originally Posted by Polux

I don't see him being impolite or calling others son, that it seems to me is a pejorative way to call an adult male. He is entitled to have his opinion regarding American foreign policy but I don't see anything related with hate in what regards is views, that we can agree with or not.

I do see some hate here, but probably I am just misunderstanding what has been said by someone else:"I thank GD for the USA and I will always defend her against the scum of the world who disrespect and show hostility to the greatest democracy on the planet. "

This does mean that the ones that disagree with American foreign Policies and show no respect to those policies, even hostility to them are "the scum of the earth"? If so, talk about arrogance

And why the greatest democracy? If it is in what regards number of electors it is India. If it is in what regards quality, countries like UK or Sweden seem to me a better example in what regards civil rights, social care and Sweden specially in what concerns foreign policy.

In nothing I have written is there any disrespect to any person or country. To what you are referring I have no idea. Feel free to address anything I have written, but do not presume to credit me with any remarks or thoughts I did not specifically make.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Freemind View Post

I sure hope so. It's been a long while since I've been to Europe, but people seemed friendly then.
I certainly wish the folks that hate us so much would send back all the money we have sent them over the years.
I'm wondering if there is a forum for cruisers from the USA only.

BahamasonmyMind.com

[Vipe6]

Originally Posted by Cadence

The Soviets were also being supplied with equipment by the US. They did pay a hell of a price in fatalities and burning everything. In the end it was probably the winter that defeated the Nazis. They hadn't studied history or Hitler was that arrogant

Someone ask about boots on the ground prior to 1944. Forgot WW I?

No, but that was a completely different war. The soviet union only came to be in 1917.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by Vipe6

No, but that was a completely different war. The soviet union only came to be in 1917.

But Russia was in the war from more or less the beginning. This is getting silly.

[Vipe6]

Originally Posted by Freemind

yes of course, you rebuilt your own country.

I guess the marshall plan paid itself back more than once for american corporations, didn't it?

[Sailor_Hutch]

It's almost impossible to get concurring versions of history from different countries. Every country controls the taught history (via textbook sanctioning) - and it always exagerates the prominence of the homeland, and demotes everything else. It's also almost impossible to convince citizens (of any country) that their version is incorrect. In fact, it's *anti-patriotic* !

My suggestion would be for readers to fatten their bookshelves with foreign origin historical books and materials, and then to hedge a guess that the facts do not lie therein, but halfway between that and the competing versions. :-)

[Vipe6]

Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga

But Russia was in the war from more or less the beginning. This is getting silly.

Indeed, especially knowing that most americans are descendants from europeans

[Vipe6]

Originally Posted by Sailor_Hutch

It's almost impossible to get concurring versions of history from different countries. Every country controls the taught history (via textbook sanctioning) - and it always exagerates the prominence of the homeland, and demotes everything else. It's also almost impossible to convince citizens (of any country) that their version is incorrect. In fact, it's *anti-patriotic* !

My suggestion would be for readers to fatten their bookshelves with foreign origin historical books and materials, and then to hedge a guess that the facts lie therein, but halfway between that and the competing versions. :-)

Except for the belgians, they make it a sport to belittle the accomplishments of their homeland. Thats what I like so much about them.

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by Sailor_Hutch

It's almost impossible to get concurring versions of history from different countries. Every country controls the taught history (via textbook sanctioning) - and it always exagerates the prominence of the homeland, and demotes everything else. It's also almost impossible to convince citizens (of any country) that their version is incorrect. In fact, it's *anti-patriotic* !

My suggestion would be for readers to fatten their bookshelves with foreign origin historical books and materials, and then to hedge a guess that the facts lie therein, but halfway between that and the competing versions. :-)

Hutch,
It is said among historians that History is written by the victors not the vanquished. And, if one read post WWII History taught in Soviet Schools after the war it would be markedly different than that taught in Western European and American schools. However, facts are facts. Only the interpretations can be disputed.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by Cadence

The Soviets were also being supplied with equipment by the US. They did pay a hell of a price in fatalities and burning everything. In the end it was probably the winter that defeated the Nazis. They hadn't studied history or Hitler was that arrogant

Someone ask about boots on the ground prior to 1944. Forgot WW I?

Look I have great respect and love for many things about the US and many of its people, genuinely, and much respect for what the US did in both world confilcts, but a peeing contest about the World Wars is rather silly. It was not only the winter which won WWII on the Eastern Front. The Soviets outproduced the US in that conflict by a large margin in terms of combat vehicles (more than 40,000 extra armored fighting vehicles in one example) and the more than 10 million Soviet combat dead in that one theatre outstrip the US WWII war dead in the entire world by more than 20 to 1.

[alha]

Originally Posted by Vipe6

I guess the marshall plan paid itself back more than once for american corporations, didn't it?

Now, now, let's not get into a p*ssing match about who benefited more. :-D I think personally that in the end, the Europeans gained vastly more than the US corporations, because it helped re-ignite the entire European industry, or at least a large portion of it and the very important infrastructure which had been destroyed. Of course the US got quite a bit out of it eventually as well as you state, but I don't believe (maybe naively?) that that was the reason it was done. I choose to believe it was our compassion that lead us to do it, and the other benefits followed from that. Again, I could be off base, but I hope I'm not. But I guess we'll never really know.

[Blue Crab]

Well. Let's all take a deep breath and thank the mods for allowing this to come to what I see and hope as a reasonable end. Kudos to Dockhead for playing. Please note that this wouldn't have raised a yawn over at Sailing Anarchy. Good to see CF loosen up a tad. And I think all comments were fairly nice. Especially mine.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

.. Occasionally our bombing had some significant effect (destruction of Ploesti oil complex in Romania; bombing of shipyards), but mostly we bombed residential neighborhoods (killing 300,000 civilians and rendering millions homeless), which had no effect on the war. German military production increased continuously throughout the war despite the bombing.
...

If you continue like that you will be considered an American hater even if you are American

In fact those bombings should have been considered and investigated as crimes of war, namely the ones responsible for those directives. At a certain point some bright guys come with the idea that it would be much more effective stop bombing military targets and start bombing civilian populations due to the demoralizing effect.

And it was not residential neighborhoods but entire towns:

“Dresden, the seventh largest city in Germany and not much smaller than Manchester, is also far the largest unbombed built-up the enemy has got. In the midst of winter with refugees pouring westwards and troops to be rested, roofs are at a premium. The intentions of the attack are to hit the enemy where he will feel it most, behind an already partially collapsed front, to prevent the use of the city in the way of further advance, and incidentally to show the Russians when they arrive what Bomber Command can do.”

RAF January 1945

Attempts to exploit the psychological impact of aerial bombardment have a long history and remain central to Air Force doctrine. Examples include the firebombing of Dresden, the atomic attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the bombing of North Vietnam. Other examples might include the German bombing of London and the British bombing of German cities in World War II.

http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/a...92/fracker.htm

[Vipe6]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

Well. Let's all take a deep breath and thank the mods for allowing this to come to what I see and hope as a reasonable end. Kudos to Dockhead for playing. Please note that this wouldn't have raised a yawn over at Sailing Anarchy. Good to see CF loosen up a tad. And I think all comments were fairly nice. Especially mine.

Indeed, especially mine.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by Freemind

I sure hope so. It's been a long while since I've been to Europe, but people seemed friendly then.
I certainly wish the folks that hate us so much would send back all the money we have sent them over the years.
I'm wondering if there is a forum for cruisers from the USA only.

I feel the same. Im sick of all this Anti American hatred. I see no one attacking England or France. It just appears it is open season on the United States on this Forum. I understand the rules of this Forum prohibit personal attacks on individuals. I think their should be the same prohibition against attacks against countries. I hate restriction of speech of any kind but this Forum has become a safe haven for anti American trolls. So sad.