Guns on boats equals 5 years jail time

[Sailor_Hutch]

Yup, this thread is going to tax the CF servers, as usual.

What bothers me about the OP's message is the term "Rigorous Imprisonment"

WTH does THAT mean?

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Rick Williams

I believe in the old adage "live by the sword, die by the sword" which I've always thought to mean if you have a sword (or gun) in your hand you're more likely to die that way then if not but I also don't want to be empty handed if an armed entity threatens my family on my slow moving (sitting duck) sailboat.
As sailors we prepare for every possible scenario and that's a foreseeable one that I am reluctantly preparing for. Magnum loads in a 12 gauge shotgun that may stop the engine on an intercepting boat and give us a chance to flee at a blistering slow run.

Or most probably getting you all killed instead of losing some money and some property or face jail time if those guns are not discovered on a country were they are not allowed.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

So, Zee, yer anti-guns I guess? ��

You think?

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by sailingfarmer

Ever hear of the "Pax Romana"? 200 years of peace at the end of a sword.

Since WW2 it has been "Pax Americana". BUT....There are a lot of modern day VisiGoths and Vandals out there.

I wish Pollyanna versions of reality weren't included in adult conversations. Please read a history book and get a better view, history, etc. of Human Nature. In the olden days of Europe... nobody but a nobleman or gentleman could be trusted with a weapon.

"Human Nature is a terrible thing but some people fight it better than others":
Grenville Vernon

Time to go sailing.....

Agreed.

In reference to "Pollyanna versions", a very politely phrased version of what I would call "ignorant garbage", I've noticed a direct correlation between grammar/spelling and intelligent discourse. Meaning ignorant people not only spew garbage, but they can't seem to spell or properly construct a sentence.

If websites had a spell checker that deleted posts that contained spelling and grammar errors, not only would my eyes stop bleeding, but we'd see an immediate rise in quality and intelligence of posts.

[SpiritofGlenans]

Originally Posted by Vipe6

I don't think it's arrogance on my behalf. I actually used to be a fan of the us untill I came into contact with some of that arrogance. It cured me for good. (so there's your answer to the chicken and the egg)
For instance, we have perfectky good cars here in europe, no need for your president to bring his own car when he visits. We even have these desks for him to stand behind when he gives a speech. And above all, we have our own police, no need for american security personnel to push us out of the way in our own countries.

I agree.

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

And yet you seem strangely ungrateful for the many innocent American lives lost in the effort to save Europe.They voluntarily came to a foreign land, gave their lives so that others may be free, and this is how some people view them.

How sad.

It was two shiploads of donated guns (collected by the NRA) that was largely responsible for saving Britain from invasion.

Winston Churchill personally supervised the unloading of the ships, and the arms being put on trains for delivery to Home Guard units all across the Country. That's how important they were, and it is a lesson we have forgotten to our great disadvantage.

I must admit since I was shot by a nutter, my outlook has changed, and my research into guns went deeper.

I now think that every woman that wants one, should have a pistol for her purse.

It's bad enough for a man, but I would not wish that feeling of utter helplessness when violently attacked and unable to defend yourself, to be experienced by anybody else, and especially a woman.

[alha]

Originally Posted by sailingfarmer

I always thought it was so incredible that a 500 ton ship could be pulled over by a leaky skiff with 4 crazed Somalis with small arms weapons.... over and over again.... I think the Europeans have become overly domesticated with the Pax Americana. I think it is time to return to within the American borders and watch the inevitable lesson which will ensue. I think lessons have to be relearned as history recedes from short term memory.

*sigh* You're probably correct. I am trying to be optimistic, so I'll just say that people are deluding themselves into thinking "This time is different, we are more advanced and have better technology, so it will never happen again." We aren't, and it will. Put money on it. Sorry, we're humans.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by Going Walkabout

What happened with the Swiss policy of everyone being part of the civilian defense and all with a rifle in their home?

I would like to add. The Swiss as a matter of their national defense policy have everyone owning and having ready a rifle in their homes. Along with ammo.

If the peace loving Swiss can do this why can't I have a rifle in my home, the boat?

I also am bemused with the constant anti self defense crowd say what about the poor little fishermen who race up to your boat being mistaken for pirates. Simple answer is that any rapid uninvited approach on the open seas should be seen as a hostile act. Attempted uninvited boarding of any kind is of itself an act of piracy where deadly force is justified.

A bunch of guys trying to trespass on my home deserve to be repelled with force. Even lethal force. My preference would be to take out their motor if an outboard or put a hole in their floor if they are that close while maneuvering quickly away. If this was SOP by boaters then every fisherman would be more careful when making an approach and not even attempt to board unless invited.

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by Sailor_Hutch

Yup, this thread is going to tax the CF servers, as usual.

What bothers me about the OP's message is the term "Rigorous Imprisonment"

WTH does THAT mean?

I think that's code for "you're getting a very amorous cell mate."

[roland stockham]

Originally Posted by Polux

I normally don't care less with what other people do but I noticed that many talk about the need to have guns aboard for protection in what regards sailing on dangerous regions.

Better be aware of what it can happen if you are caught with them: 5 years jail time on a democratic country like India has impressed me.

"... a trial court in Tuticorin in south Tamil Nadu on Monday convicted 23 foreign nationals, all of whom were onboard a detained U.S. anti-piracy vessel ‘MV Seaman Guard Ohio’, under provisions of the Arms Act. The foreigners and 12 Indians, cited as co-accused, have been sentenced to undergo a five-year rigorous imprisonment term for illegally entering Indian waters with a huge cache of arms and ammunition..""
" However, it seems that the judge(es) making current decision have accused every single person on the ship for carrying a gun..."

Five-year RI for 35 crew members of US ship Seaman Guard Ohio - The Hindu

Americans due to the way guns are allowed on their country don't have an idea of how private ownership of war guns is viewed by law on other countries and the penalties they would be subjected if they are caught with them.

War guns are not necessarily automatic rifles. On several European countries a caliber 38 or over is considered a war gun and even if licensed a private citizen can only use for self defense small calibers. Those licenses are hard to get and have to be justified.

Not a Gun thread, not interested in that at all. Only a warning about what can happen if one is caught out of US with guns aboard.

This is not really anything to do with 'ordinary' people carrying guns this was a fully armed mercenary expedition. In most countries mercenaries are considered only one peg above terrorist. The idea of commercial enterprise being involved in war defense or policing is just way out of the window. The state does that - period - it's what they are for. So the idea that a private gunboat might be either legitimate or on our side just does not compute. It's a gunboat, it's not flying my flat therefore it is an invasion. My only surprise is that they did not get blown out of the water.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Ribbit

....
That's why I say declare it, while it is still on the boat (because there is a significant difference once that gun is off the boat, even for declaring it purposes), and in a secure cabinet that can be officially sealed by customs.
..

I don't think you will be able to declare anything in what regards guns on most European countries were those guns are forbidden. As a private citizen of another country you will not be able to enter with guns. If you are already inside the country and declare that you have guns they will be confiscated and you are lucky if that ends up like that.

[SpiritofGlenans]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

Are you for real???


Do you hate the Pope as well for bringing his own Popemobile? Sorry, but despite your naive dislike for American cars, the fact remains that there is a very real threat to his life everywhere, and he needs armored vehicles at all times.

You can thank any and all crackpots or foreign enemies for that.

The Popemobile is generally supplied by the host countries. The one from JP2's visit to Ireland in the 70'sis now displayed in an Irish museum.

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by Polux

Or most probably getting you all killed instead of losing some money and some property or face jail time if those guns are not discovered on a country were they are not allowed.

What an interesting twist.


So the person with the gun trying to defend himself is the bad guy, and the poor little thief or mugger is just a victim of society and shouldn't be blamed for his actions...

Brilliant!!

[sailingfarmer]

In the Bahamas.... you declare your guns and ammo... they want an exact count.... and secure the gun(s) below. When leaving every bullet has to be there. Very logical and civilized.

[SpiritofGlenans]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

Are you for real???


Do you hate the Pope as well for bringing his own Popemobile? Sorry, but despite your naive dislike for American cars, the fact remains that there is a very real threat to his life everywhere, and he needs armored vehicles at all times.

You can thank any and all crackpots or foreign enemies for that.

It is my assumption that Vipe6 was not critisizing American cars as such, just the American arrogance as to which cars should be used.