Guns on boats equals 5 years jail time

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

OMG did you really just repeat that american gun lobby, donald trump clap trap

Crime did NOT sky rocket at all, thats a rediculous lie. And we havnt had a mass shooting since.

Ahah..!!
More garbage from the World of Fox...

[tp12]

Originally Posted by Canibul

I notice very few counties seem to have a prohibition against armed Amerrcans when they need them to save their asses, though.

Only if you believe the American version of history...ignorance is bliss eh.

Sent from my SM-T520 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Goosebumps]

I would suggest to have a serious debate analysing the guns on board problem to assist us, whatever our origins, to make the right decisions about this, to avoid risking legal problems, worse jail. I would at this point contribute by saying, I never had a gun on board in all the years I have lived aboard cruised the Southern and Eastern African areas. There are many creative ways of dealing with treats to our liveaboard security. If attacked by people armed with AK47 running you down with fast skiffs I suggest you got no choice but give in. Best prevention for that situation is inform oneself about where to go and not go! A dog is and can be a deterent to attacks from un-professionals trying their hand at it. Train with sai martial art weapon against panga/katana attack as that will be most common attack in many coastal areas in the world. Keep pressurised cans at the ready with simple insecticide like baygon ready to spray in face of attacker(s). Realuze that if you resist atrack and you fail the violenceagainst your person will be harsher, worse. A very important aspect is to know your own limits, yoyr own piwer, your own skills when in preparation for an attack. Have you ever had to defend yourself in a fight before, one with lethal weapons.... If yes you obvioysly survived and are somewhat better prepared.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Goosebumps

I would suggest to have a serious debate analysing the guns on board problem to assist us, whatever our origins, to make the right decisions about this, to avoid risking legal problems, worse jail. I would at this point contribute by saying, I never had a gun on board in all the years I have lived aboard cruised the Southern and Eastern African areas. There are many creative ways of dealing with treats to our liveaboard security. If attacked by people armed with AK47 running you down with fast skiffs I suggest you got no choice but give in. Best prevention for that situation is inform oneself about where to go and not go! A dog is and can be a deterent to attacks from un-professionals trying their hand at it. Train with sai martial art weapon against panga/katana attack as that will be most common attack in many coastal areas in the world. Keep pressurised cans at the ready with simple insecticide like baygon ready to spray in face of attacker(s). Realuze that if you resist atrack and you fail the violenceagainst your person will be harsher, worse. A very important aspect is to know your own limits, yoyr own piwer, your own skills when in preparation for an attack. Have you ever had to defend yourself in a fight before, one with lethal weapons.... If yes you obvioysly survived and are somewhat better prepared.

Your not as Dumb as you sometime's come across are you mate..??

[tp12]

Originally Posted by Vipe6

It's actually this need that spawns the ill will I think. (and a tendency to be arrogant towards the rest of the world)

100% But there are none so blind as those who will not see

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[latka]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

What is so crazy about being able to defend yourself from criminals?

Here's what happened in Australia when they turned in their guns. These aren't Americans in the video, these are Australians, including law enforcement. Crime skyrocketed after the guns were confiscated.

And basing your opinion on "statistics" posted on Youtube is just as scary!

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by sailingfarmer

Sailors are free spirits.... most have weapons aboard in some fashion even if they are from Europe. There has to be an agreement that cruisers can and do sail to places that are potentially dangerous. Logically they have to have some form of protection. Until someone invents some kind of Stun Ray Gun...

This is certainly not true in our experience causing all over the world - unless you are talking about things like hammers and pipe wrenches. The subject of guns does come up when (real) cruisers are sharing a beer or three and very few people have guns - even Americans. Met one guy who threw his handgun over the side after sailing half-way around the world - it just got to be too much a hassle to deal with all of the declarations (there already is enough paperwork in many places) and you would be nuts not to declare.

You avoid the places that have a bad reputation. I would not go to Haiti, Venezuela, or the Horn of Africa for example. When we were going from Ascension Island toward Grenada our shortest course would have brought us fairly close to Venezuela. We just chose to stay a greater distance offshore to make it a bit safer. Someone mentioned dangerous places and included Indonesia. Indonesia is a big place and the part we visited (Timor to Bali) was delightful and safe. You can't over-generailze. Even take a small country like Ecuador, another of our favourite stops. A few areas in the country are dangerous, while the great majority is very safe. You do your homework and stay out of the bad bits.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Dockhead,

Please provide your source for the 10 to 1 ratio of tanks you state. I have never read these figures in any historical account of WWII History that even approximate those numbers. Here's another source which states Russian tanks 106,025; German tanks: 67,429. Thanks

https://en.wikipedia.org/.../Militar...n_during_World...

When I'm back home with my library, I'll give you the figures, from primary sources.

Note that I did not say that Soviet production of all AFV during the whole war exceeded German production by that ratio. I said main battle tanks and at the end.

In any case, this is all a bit of a quibble -- all of the figures you cited show the same picture, which is that the Nazis couldn't keep up with the Soviets in war production, something I had never heard in school nor in college history courses.

I heard this story for the first time when I was a student in Germany. My girlfriend's father was an ex-SS officer and unrepentant Nazi. I was terrified of him at first, but he turned out to be quite friendly, especially when he realized that I was willing to sit up with him drinking beer and listening to his war stories, something young Germans of that time couldn't stand. He spent the whole war on the Eastern Front, finally escaping a Soviet POW camp at the end of the war and swimming across the Danube in winter to give himself up to the Americans. He was the one who first told me that the Soviets were far better supplied throughout the war, with far better equipment, and that the Soviet Army was really good at logistics, which is what eventually won the war despite terrible Soviet military leadership (especially at the beginning of the war), and often poor tactics. He said they never had enough of anything, not just weapons, but clothing and other basic supplies, and that German soldiers were known to even kill each other over a pair of Russian boots. He said that they were amazed at the supplies they found when they captured Soviet depots, the likes of which they had never seen even in peacetime. I've been studying the war ever since, and all the primary sources back up his assessment, although it's a little told story even today.


Note that we and the British made a great effort to disrupt German war production with bombing. The Germans made an even greater effort to disrupt Soviet war production -- by overrunning all the industrial areas of the Soviet Union. Neither of these things had any large, generalized effect -- both Soviet and German war production increased throughout the war.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Ahh... the Pathans.. aka Pashtun aka Taliban... the Lost Tribe of Israel..
They and the other tribes that make up Afghanistan have severely kicked the **** out of the British twice.. kicked the **** out of the Russians more or less independently and are still kicking ass after the latest 'Strategic Victory'
The Afghans just want everyone to piss off and leave them alone.. they are bored shitless with conquerors over the centuries and are pretty much a law unto themselves..
It has ever been that way in the NWFP..

Pretty much what she said plus the money help going always to the wrong hands...for a long time. One that was "helped" there by the Americans long time ago was Bin Laden, when he was a Taliban fighting the soviets.

I guess that applies there what Julius Cesar said more than 2000 years ago about the ones we consider our ancestors, the Lusitanians: "A people that don't now how to rule themselves but that doesn't allow others to rule them". I guess we are still trying to learn how to rule ourselves.

[Strait Shooter]

Here's Indonesia's proposed solution to piracy.



I wonder about that rotating mast though 🤔

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Polux

Pretty much what she said plus the money help going always to the wrong hands...for a long time. One that was "helped" there by the Americans long time ago was Bin Laden, when he was a Taliban fighting the soviets.

I guess that applies there what Julius Cesar said more than 2000 years ago about the ones we consider our ancestors, the Lusitanians: "A people that don't now how to rule themselves but that doesn't allow others to rule them". I guess we are still trying to learn how to rule ourselves.

I don't think 'Help' is quite the correct phrase.. unless one calls withdrawing all the DEA and UK agents from Pakistan during the Russian period to open the doors for the Heroin Trade..
That 'Help' was paid for with more than money.. the Western world turns on cynical strategies ...
The morning after Russia withdrew 40+ DEA landed at Karachi Airport.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

Once they came into power, they weren't going to let anyone vote them out of office, that's for sure. The only way for the citizens of those nations to depose those dictators would have been for the armed citizens to overthrow them. Can't do that without real weapons, huh? Pitchforks and plowshares aren't all that effective.

Some posters here seem to think that the US meddles in the business of too many nations...

Maybe not without guns but almost without blood spilled. When the population of a country is overwhelmingly against a government that is there against its will, things become easy and the government is overthrown without too many problems and the ones that managed that are looked as heroes by the vast majority of the populations.

The problem seems that when US comes to help populations to get ride of dictators that supposedly are hated by the population and are oppressing them, end up not viewed by those populations, not as heroes but as oppressors at least by a considerable part of the population and contrary with bloodless revolutions, it turns out always to be a bloody mess.

I am not a pacifists that think that nothing should be done but I am one of those that think that those actions should not be done by a country or a collision but by the UN that represents all countries.

Too many interventions made by a specific country or coalition on a region have behind not humanitarian interests but geo strategical or economic interests and many humanitarian disasters are allowed by the international community were there are no geo strategical or economic interests to gain.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Polux

Maybe not without guns but almost without blood spilled. When the population of a country is overwhelmingly against a government that is there against its will, things become easy and the government is overthrown without too many problems and the ones that managed that are looked as heroes by the vast majority of the populations.

The problem seems that when US comes to help populations to get ride of dictators that supposedly are hated by the population and are oppressing them, end up not viewed by those populations, not as heroes but as oppressors at least by a considerable part of the population and contrary with bloodless revolutions, it turns out always to be a bloody mess.

I am not a pacifists that think that nothing should be done but I am one of those that think that those actions should not be done by a country or a collision but by the UN that represents all countries.

Too many interventions made by a specific country or coalition on a region have behind not humanitarian interests but geo strategical or economic interests and many humanitarian disasters are allowed by the international community were there are no geo strategical or economic interests to gain.

Kipling called it 'The Great Game'...
The US and China are the 'New Kids on the Block'...

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I don't think 'Help' is quite the correct phrase.. ...

By help I mean support training and lots of money:

During the anti-Soviet jihad Bin Laden and his fighters received American and Saudi funding. Some analysts believe Bin Laden himself had security training from the CIA.

Robin Cook, Foreign Secretary in the UK from 1997–2001, believed the CIA had provided arms to the Arab Mujahideen, including Osama bin Laden, writing, "Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan."...
In conversation with former British Defence Secretary Michael Portillo, two-time Prime Minister of Pakistan Benazir Bhutto said Osama bin Laden was initially pro-American. Prince Bandar bin Sultan of Saudi Arabia, has also stated that bin Laden once expressed appreciation for the United States' help in Afghanistan. On CNN's Larry King program he said:

Bandar bin Sultan: This is ironic. In the mid-'80s, if you remember, we and the United - Saudi Arabia and the United States were supporting the Mujahideen to liberate Afghanistan from the Soviets. He [Osama bin Laden] came to thank me for my efforts to bring the Americans, our friends, to help us against the atheists, he said the communists. Isn't it ironic?
Larry King: How ironic. In other words, he came to thank you for helping bring America to help him.
Bandar bin Sultan: Right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allega...sama_bin_Laden

[Ala Moana]

If you do have a gun on your boat make sure you don't store the spare ammo in the berth under the compass... All that lead affects the calibration! Just saying