Govt Shutdown Impact on Boaters

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Bestathook

An old friend printed and distributed bumper stickers every election year, that said

"Throw the rascals out !"

Obviously anyone who objected was one of the Rascals.

I wonder where I can get some today.

I like this one:

TAKE A BITE OUT OF CRIME
RE-ELECT NOBODY

[pbiJim]

There seems to be a large number of people on this board who wish to debate politics. Perhaps a separate section of the board should be set aside for those conversations, so as to make it easier to leave the rest of the board free of those discussions, as the rules of this board suggest we should.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by zeehag

Lake Mead property owners forced out until shutdown ends - www.ktnv.com

Where is the outrage? Where are the pitchforks? It is truely time for civil disobedience. Visit these places in large numbers. See how they will handle a few thousand people touching the WWII memorial; crossing stupid baricades; walking on the beaches & in the woods. The Park service is custodian for these lands but they do no own them, nor does Congress or the President. This is not the KING's land. We fought a war to throw those bums out. Who the heck invited them back?

Michigan has 4.8 million acres of Fed controlled lands. That is approximately 1/2 of our total land area. People own property on and in these zones and public roads pass through by the thousands. Most of this is managed by our DNR. Policeing is by state cops, DNR and county sheriff. I have never seen a Federal officer in any of these places. We have official notice that all federal lands are off limits. If we were prevented from entering, passing through these areas all commerce in Michigan would have to cease. I say to THEM - go pound salt. If these guys are furloughed GO HOME.

If there is real disruption to the economy it will be at the hands of pouty, puny little jerks with government IDs.

[Sand crab]

National Parks have controlled access but the National Forests are mostly uncontrolled. Drive around that gate at Yellowstone and let me know how it works out for you.
FWIW A friend of a friend got a DUI in the National Forest here and actually did some time in the Federal Prison system. We do see forest rangers occasionally here.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

If there is real disruption to the economy it will be at the hands of pouty, puny little jerks with government IDs.

You may not yet fully understand the impact of both the sequester and the shutdown to the nation's economy. Less people employed with less $$ to spend means that your local shopkeeper (whether it be WalMart or Mom&Pop grocery down the swtreet) gets hit in the wallet.

That's simply NOT good, but it will take some time to make a visible impact.

That's what the guys who are pulling this stunt are counting on.

Bet on it...

[pbiJim]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

You may not yet fully understand the impact of both the sequester and the shutdown to the nation's economy. Less people employed with less $$ to spend means that your local shopkeeper (whether it be WalMart or Mom&Pop grocery down the swtreet) gets hit in the wallet.

That might be a short term effect. A long term effect may be that those same people then go out & get jobs in the private sector, producing useful goods & services rather than being the foot soldiers of a bureaucracy. In that case, the GDP & the economy both actually improve in the long run.

I'm trying to keep the scope of this comment relative to economic theory, rather than politics.

[fryewe]

Originally Posted by Half Pint

Today, however, our President actually believes he has the power to control the oceans.

Must be three dimensional control because you may remember that he said on the occasion of winning his first term that the day would be remembered as the day the oceans began to fall.

What a man!!!

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Where is the outrage? Where are the pitchforks? It is truely time for civil disobedience. Visit these places in large numbers. See how they will handle a few thousand people touching the WWII memorial; crossing stupid baricades; walking on the beaches & in the woods. The Park service is custodian for these lands but they do no own them, nor does Congress or the President. ...

If there is real disruption to the economy it will be at the hands of pouty, puny little jerks with government IDs.

Fighting the little guys, like park rangers... most of whom are your neighbours and feel much the same as you... what would that accomplish? Cut them some slack.

If you're genuinely outraged, you should be burning up the phone lines to your Congress-critter and Senator, not targeting some furloughed ranger.

Why isn't there a million-plus gathering in DC? Why aren't the party headquarters being mobbed?

(Where's the outrage, really?, Well, polls suggest that, outside of some specific minor grievances like yours, most Americans are not yet "outraged", just disappointed and head-shaking. The pitchforks remain in the attic.

This might be the wisest course, to get through this shutdown theater. I expect that the "shutdown" will last until the debt-ceiling is at the 11th hour, then there will be a "breakthrough", with some token concessions. Can't see how Boehner can survive as Speaker, though... don't know if he really wants to)

[Richard5]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

For those of you who say: "Who cares?" and poke fun at parks and monuments closing, why not ask yourselves these kinds of questions first:

1. Would YOU like to have 17% taken off your income without notice for NO reason?

2. Would you like it if the gas attendant at your fuel station shorted you 17% fuel but still charged you the full amount?

3. Would you like it if your sailmaker built your new mainsail, but only gave you the part above the first reef point?

4. Would you like it if your new furling gear only came with the top swivel?

Are you talking to me? What I showed was the realized impact is greater than expected impact from a 17% stoppage.

Would you expect the wheels to fall off because you were shorted on fuel?

Would you expect the cook stove to malfunction because your furling gear came with only a top swivel?

If one were living within their means they could absorb a 17% decrease even for the long term and without significant changes in their life. However, it may also be expected one would react to that decrease by making changes in some aspect(s) of their life. Artificial forces which are contrived to increase the impact beyond what would be expected of a 17% decrease is the point of my contention.

Now, to lighten the load...tequila DOES make her clothes fall off. Who knew?

[Sand crab]

I can't see the logic of the Republicans' bills that try to defund or halt the Affordable Care Act. It's Obama's baby and he said he would veto any bill that tries to mess with it. Even John McCain said that. He said they don't have the votes to override the veto. End of story. Let's get on with it.

BTW I am an independent.

[Rhapsody-NS27]

I agree with others that the government seems to be making things difficult for its citizens. But to what end? Forcing people from their homes make no sense at all. Forcing people not to use waterways as was posted earlier make no sense either. Manning and closing down/barricading publicly open sites like the monuments in DC make no sense at all either considering they're probably spending more to deny these things to people that it normally would. Shutting down AUTOMATED websites that don't require human interaction to maintain is pretty stupid as well. Things are getting difficult just for the sake of being difficult but there is absolutely no sense in any of it.

I'm sure many people are angry and want their voices heard in DC of how fed up we are. Some might say that there needs to be an outlet to allow this.

But, wouldn't you know it? That outlet is also closed to us. Yet again, another automated website. We The People website used to petition the government is also shut down.

[Ocean Girl]

Parks and vacations interrupted...some people aren't getting dinner tonight because of this, and most of em are kids and elderly. Food should trump it all. The naval boat yard is working half staff, they maintain our nuclear subs. I think certain congressmen/woman is making the monument closure a big deal to take the focus off the real hurt.

Getting mad at the park workers is just silly, they are even more powerless over this fiasco than us.

Rhapsody, everyday I've been writing angry letters to my congress, including the top leaders of each house, those websites still work. I'm respectful while maintaining their complete jackassery ( is that a word?)

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by Cormorant

non-essential civil servant at NOAA so I am home without pay.

no, they are all being paid, thou i think they should not. private sector jobs are there, go apply, and get hired.

I suppose the people at Coast Guard believe the models are reliable, and probably no one has told them that the models can get less reliable every day that the government is shut down. But the ocean circulation part of the model relies on assimilating data from active radar satellites that measure ocean surface wind speed, wave height, and "dynamic topography", which is the ocean equivalent of what high and low pressure systems are in the atmosphere. If the ocean model doesn't get these data, its prediction of currents gradually 'relaxes' (decays, more or less exponentially) away from a good approximation of the truth and toward an overall background state that is a climatological average.

all essential personal are at work, in fact many NOAA offices are fully staffed.

An analogous situation in weather forecasting would be if you stopped giving the computer models any info about barometric pressure, clouds, winds, and humidity, and then watched what happened to the accuracy of the daily forecast. Before long the forecast would have no fronts, shears, weather, etc. and would just look the same over hundreds of miles, just the background climate.

this is not true, NOAA is not the only forecast body, in fact most of the data they provide is still available to forecasters to use in models.

So why aren't all three satellite data streams deemed essential? Basically, it is money. The US isn't investing in satellite technology as it should....

we spent 1 billion on a carbon measurement satellite, that crashed into the ocean last year. seeing as how NASA is the US, i would say that we are.

this person is clearly lying. as i would if someone found out my job was worthless, and non-essential. its time to wake up, realize the fed is redundant 99% of the time, and put an end to it. let states run themselves, for better or worse.

[goboatingnow]

If Obama caves and negotiates on the ACA, The US is lost. Can you imagine any other country essentially seeking to subvert a utterly legal , constitutionally tested law, by holding the whole budget to random, I mean its just incredible, its a virtual coup d'état.

Dave

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by Ocean Girl

Parks and vacations interrupted...some people aren't getting dinner tonight because of this, and most of em are kids and elderly. Food should trump it all.

who is hungry? i don't see these hungry kids and old people.