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Old 13-09-2015, 05:47   #1
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Getting started sailing cheaply.

As some here knows I want to get a live aboard sailboat. But things have just not fell into place yet for me to do that yet. For now so I can get out on the water and learn the practicable side of sailing and not just some of the theory I have thought of getting a Sun Dolphin Mackinaw 15.6' Square Back Canoe, getting or making some outriggers and adding a DIY sailing rig to it.

Looks as if I can build a rig including the ama' s for about 1/3 of the cost of the canoe instead of buying a premature kit that cost over two times what the canoe cost with less buoyancy in the ama' s than the ones I can make at home. My main question is this, if I want the boom to be higher that my head height while sitting down at the lowest point of the boom, how tall of a mast would I need using a Lateen rigging. For the numbers, from the sitting position, from the top of my head to the chair seat is 42". The beam of the canoe without the ama' s is 42" the length is 15' 6" the height is 18.5". The ama' s I have in mind would be 12' long and hold 5 cubic feet of #2 closed cell aero marine expanding foam. I would design the mounts for the ama' s so that they could be raised up while sailing and down while fishing. Also be able to slide them in so the are almost touching the sides of the canoe while transporting and out while on the water. I figure with the ama' s extended that the total beam of the craft would be 96". I was looking at 2" electrical conduit for the main mast but I don't know if I can find any over 10 feet long or not so I would have to find a second piece that would fit slightly inside the larger and ether bolt or weld it together.
I think this will be my cheapest route to get me out on the lake and start learning. What do you all think and any advice is welcome. My right knee is doing very well since the surgery last Nov and due to have the left done here in three days. So I should be done with therapy by late Nov and be able to have everything built and ready to go by spring. Just need to know more details on building the rig before then.

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Old 13-09-2015, 07:36   #2
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Re: Getting started sailing cheaply.

I'm sorry this may not be helpful to you at all, but in our area we got sailing cheaply because we found a little club (on craigslist) where a guy who had a Catalina 25' let people buy a membership to his boat. There were just a small amount of people in the group. There was an online calendar that we just signed up on to reserve space. We found we were the ones who used it way more than anyone and it was often available.
I know this may not be a solution you are thinking of, but thought I would share in case you found something like this in your town first. It would save you a lot of hassle and money. Probably a major long shot, but worth checking out. Our membership was $200 for the year!


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Old 13-09-2015, 08:16   #3
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Re: Getting started sailing cheaply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbabypenguin View Post
I'm sorry this may not be helpful to you at all, but in our area we got sailing cheaply because we found a little club (on craigslist) where a guy who had a Catalina 25' let people buy a membership to his boat. There were just a small amount of people in the group. There was an online calendar that we just signed up on to reserve space. We found we were the ones who used it way more than anyone and it was often available.
I know this may not be a solution you are thinking of, but thought I would share in case you found something like this in your town first. It would save you a lot of hassle and money. Probably a major long shot, but worth checking out. Our membership was $200 for the year!


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Thanks, never thought about sailing that way. I will have to check it out and see if there is anything around here like that too.


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Old 13-09-2015, 08:21   #4
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Re: Getting started sailing cheaply.

there are small sailboats with trailers out there if you were considering that route. here's a nice one in SC: Sailboat Catalina Capri 14.2 and good luck with the knee recovery.
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Old 13-09-2015, 08:29   #5
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Re: Getting started sailing cheaply.

There's a young lady on our dock that lives aboard a Catalina 25. She paid $500.00 for the boat.

Slip fee is $8.00/ft plus $100.00 for liveaboards and includes cable, wifi, pool useage, clean restrooms with showers, washer/dryer, etc

She uses public transportation.

One time a couple years ago she and some friends sailed downtown for an event. I said are you sailing back Sunday Night? They were like No. We'll just take the bus from where we are and sail back when we have the time.

Not a bad way to live cheaply...........and enjoy sailing.
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Old 13-09-2015, 08:55   #6
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Re: Getting started sailing cheaply.

The thing with a canoe I can throw it on top of a car and go fishing or hunting in it when not sailing and leave the sailing rig at home when not needed.

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Old 13-09-2015, 22:39   #7
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Re: Getting started sailing cheaply.

Noticed the Kindle changed premade to premature. No one knows how long of a mast I would need for this rig?

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Old 13-09-2015, 23:44   #8
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Re: Getting started sailing cheaply.

You've never sailed, and you think designing and building an unusual sailing rig from scratch is your cheapest option to get out there and try sailing?

Seems.... ambitious.

Not to dissuade you from what could be, with some remote possibility, a fantastic project, but there are certainly cheaper and easier ways to go try sailing.

Clubs, used boats, day rentals.... maybe try putting a wanted ad with a price and size range and see what comes back to you?
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Old 14-09-2015, 02:45   #9
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Re: Getting started sailing cheaply.

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Originally Posted by chris95040 View Post
You've never sailed, and you think designing and building an unusual sailing rig from scratch is your cheapest option to get out there and try sailing?

Seems.... ambitious.

Not to dissuade you from what could be, with some remote possibility, a fantastic project, but there are certainly cheaper and easier ways to go try sailing.

Clubs, used boats, day rentals.... maybe try putting a wanted ad with a price and size range and see what comes back to you?
I have plans for this rig that were not designed by me at all and are for a 16 foot canoe. The only thing I want to change is to raise the boom height up so I will not have to duck every time I tack and the boom swings around. The plans are for a 8 foot mast. I'm just not sure If I can raise the boom up that much higher without making the mast at least 10'. This stuff doesn't cost allot to make if you have the skill to make things which I do have.
I used to work special maintenance at a aluminum factory and had to build and design things all the time. I have also been doing wood work since I was 8 years old, So following the plans is not a problem for me. I'd rather spend about $250.00 on making the kit at home than spend $1099.00 plus shipping on a premade kit.



sailing_canoe

BTW saw a used 16' canoe, non square stern, Saturday for $100.00 while on the way home.
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Old 14-09-2015, 06:08   #10
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Re: Getting started sailing cheaply.

If I were starting a new hobby, I'd want to start with a known design that had successfully been used to introduce people to that hobby.

This is already an oddball rig that almost no one will be able to give you direct advice on. You are also discussing modifying it for your height. That'll make it even more of a custom oddball design.

Without going down a rat hole, I'd just mention that things like raising the height of the rig have other implications on the rest of the design - the righting moment would likely have to be correspondingly modified, etc. I'm not looking to have a design discussion, just pointing out that this is a bizarre set of problems to choose to face before you've ever even been sailing.

And when this customization of an already pretty rare rig behaves unusually, who are you going to ask about it? Take a second and consider that. You're going to get a bunch of responses like this, telling you to get out on a proven, preferably popular design, in an attempt to steer you from an unnecessary uphill battle.

My $0.02: Find a cheap/free boat (they are PLENTIFUL) and go sailing! It'll be a lot more fun if you are on a design you can actually talk to people about.

On the other hand, I've certainly stubbornly chosen the uphill battle before, and its not the end of the world. In this case, you'll probably learn a lot more about building sailing canoes, but a lot less about sailing. Is that a bad thing?
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Old 14-09-2015, 06:30   #11
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Re: Getting started sailing cheaply.

Go read this if you have not already done so.

Does a canoe make a sailor?

As to raising the boom or rig on that canoe design you posted. I would not.
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Old 14-09-2015, 07:45   #12
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Re: Getting started sailing cheaply.

Go buy that 14.2 sailboat on the trailer for $1500 and the canoe you saw for $100 and your there. If you think you can build what your suggesting for under $2000 I think your dreaming or found something funny to smoke. This way you will have a sail boat to sail and a canoe to go fishing. and when your done and ready to move on to a bigger boat you can probably recover at least half your investment. Your home built you would have to give away. So much better to learn on something designed to be sailed then on something you build that might sail or might not. If you want to learn to sail, go buy the above, if you want to be a boat builder go your route.
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Old 14-09-2015, 07:53   #13
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Re: Getting started sailing cheaply.

Make sure you allowed for tooling, lofting etc. when thinking of building. Unless you have all the space, tools and access to wholesale priced materials, building stuff is often 100 to 200% more expensive than many of us think.

Also, building keeps one away from sailing. So a decision has to be made which of the two hobbies you actually want to devote to.

Otherwise, given flat enough water you can start sailing in about anything. Canoe would not be my first choice as they can be tippy and ending up in the water too often can be discouraging (depending on how hot it is where you sail).

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Old 14-09-2015, 08:06   #14
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Re: Getting started sailing cheaply.

i would learn to swim.. canoes sink like stones ...
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Old 14-09-2015, 08:46   #15
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Re: Getting started sailing cheaply.

Maybe you can find a used kayak w/sail on craigslist. Here's an example. It's a Klepper but very expensive. There are other types though like Folbot.

Also, these type kayaks fit in backpacks so you can store a 16' kayak in the trunk of your car or in your closet. They are called folding kayaks.

Navy Seals also use them.

Btw, a doctor back in the late 50's crossed the Atlantic in a Klepper Kayak w/sail.

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