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Old 02-07-2016, 10:18   #61
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Re: Getting comfortable with anchoring is really liberating

I arrived in a new anchorage about 3 hours ago. I thought it was really busy. So we anchored on the outside. Three hours later... Now twice as many boats have arrived and NOW it's is REALLY busy. Someone has anchored so their bow is 10 meters from my stern. This is a new experience for sure. And the wind is spinning boats in different directions.

Is there some kind of rule that if you are the the later boat arriving you are "more responsible" to make sure the distances are adiqute?

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Old 02-07-2016, 10:24   #62
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Re: Getting comfortable with anchoring is really liberating

In a tight anchorage 10 meters will work, a bit close but... The problem is when some yayhoo decides he needs 10:1 rode out, or decides to anchor off the stern also. messes up the whole anchorage.
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Old 02-07-2016, 10:30   #63
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Re: Getting comfortable with anchoring is really liberating

Well its all kicking off. The first boats are hitting each other.



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Old 02-07-2016, 10:49   #64
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Re: Getting comfortable with anchoring is really liberating

I had someone today 10 meters off the stern in a crowded anchorage. No problem. Since I couldn't take in chain because someone was 10 meters off my bow, I politely asked the fellow on the stern to let out 10 more meters, which he did.

When it came time for him to leave, he politely got my attention, and I moved my boat thirty meters forward and to starboard so that he could retrieve his anchor. We waved ciao ciao to each other, everyone was happy.

The green pirate ship with the anchorage hogging jackass onboard left yesterday along with his anchorage hogging friend.

Everyone had fewer problems today with over two hundred boats in the anchorage, than they did with the two knuckleheads a couple of days ago when there were only 20 boats.

Definition according to Webster:

jackass
noun
1. a male donkey.
2. a contemptibly foolish or stupid person; dolt; blockhead; ass.
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Old 02-07-2016, 11:21   #65
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Re: Getting comfortable with anchoring is really liberating

Quote:
Originally Posted by AFKASAP View Post
I arrived in a new anchorage about 3 hours ago. I thought it was really busy. So we anchored on the outside. Three hours later... Now twice as many boats have arrived and NOW it's is REALLY busy. Someone has anchored so their bow is 10 meters from my stern. This is a new experience for sure. And the wind is spinning boats in different directions.

Is there some kind of rule that if you are the the later boat arriving you are "more responsible" to make sure the distances are adiqute?

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You eventually get used to the chaos, it can even be entertaining at times. It's what we do instead of watching TV.
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Old 02-07-2016, 11:39   #66
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Re: Getting comfortable with anchoring is really liberating

[QUOTE=Dockhead;2157726]There has been a lot of vigorous discussion about the merits or demerits of tandem anchoring, so I thought your post might stimulate more conversation on that. Here is some good work done on tandem anchoring: Two to Tandem: Maximizing Holding Power by Tandem Anchoring

Thanks Dockhead, this is a very interesting article written by someone with a greater pedigree then mine—although I am four years older than Peter Smith.
It’s a very long and detailed piece, but there is no date when it was first published.
I devised my method in 1977 on a 40 foot ketch in order to feel more at ease anchoring in the South of Spain and France, where strong winds can hurtle down the mountains from nowhere at any time, usually at 3am. I think this is the issue the OP is raising.
Although I can't agree with Mr. Smith on his first statement of principal. He says a tandem system is unnecessary if the ground tackle is the correct size. My first boat had twin 55lbs Admiralty pattern Danforths on 200 foot of 1/2 inch chain each side, and it still sometimes dragged.
My present boat has a 65lb CQR on 300 feet of 3/8” chain as a main bower, for a boat weighing only 22 tons. Whether these are correct of not, there is still no guarantee they will not drag under adverse conditions.
That’s why I set my twin anchors, every night, without fail, and have perfected it to the point where it is nearly as quick as setting or retrieving a single anchor. I should add, my attachment method is different and easier to what Smith advocates.
It considerably reduces the risk of dragging and has certainly proved it’s case over the years, principally to give me peace of mind and a good nights sleep. I’m also proud to say there is more than a few boats kicking around the world employing my method.
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Old 02-07-2016, 11:48   #67
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Re: Getting comfortable with anchoring is really liberating

I spoke too soon, the green pirate ship and his 60ft catamaran sidekick are back. Yes, they each set 300ft of chain. The good news, they're far enough away to not cause me any headaches and I'm leaving first thing in the morning.
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Old 02-07-2016, 13:33   #68
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Re: Getting comfortable with anchoring is really liberating

In a crowded anchorage, do you leave out your fenders?
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Old 02-07-2016, 14:10   #69
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Re: Getting comfortable with anchoring is really liberating

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Originally Posted by ViribusUnitis View Post
In a crowded anchorage, do you leave out your fenders?
I have before. In St Lucia (?) Some charterers came in late in the day, anchored right next to use and went ashore. There were times It seems I could just step across onto their boat.
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Old 02-07-2016, 14:45   #70
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Re: Getting comfortable with anchoring is really liberating

[QUOTE=Jolly Roger;2157808]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
There has been a lot of vigorous discussion about the merits or demerits of tandem anchoring, so I thought your post might stimulate more conversation on that. Here is some good work done on tandem anchoring: Two to Tandem: Maximizing Holding Power by Tandem Anchoring

Thanks Dockhead, this is a very interesting article written by someone with a greater pedigree then mine—although I am four years older than Peter Smith.
It’s a very long and detailed piece, but there is no date when it was first published.
I devised my method in 1977 on a 40 foot ketch in order to feel more at ease anchoring in the South of Spain and France, where strong winds can hurtle down the mountains from nowhere at any time, usually at 3am. I think this is the issue the OP is raising.
Although I can't agree with Mr. Smith on his first statement of principal. He says a tandem system is unnecessary if the ground tackle is the correct size. My first boat had twin 55lbs Admiralty pattern Danforths on 200 foot of 1/2 inch chain each side, and it still sometimes dragged.
My present boat has a 65lb CQR on 300 feet of 3/8” chain as a main bower, for a boat weighing only 22 tons. Whether these are correct of not, there is still no guarantee they will not drag under adverse conditions.
That’s why I set my twin anchors, every night, without fail, and have perfected it to the point where it is nearly as quick as setting or retrieving a single anchor. I should add, my attachment method is different and easier to what Smith advocates.
It considerably reduces the risk of dragging and has certainly proved it’s case over the years, principally to give me peace of mind and a good nights sleep. I’m also proud to say there is more than a few boats kicking around the world employing my method.
Jolly Roger,

Three questions:

1. Do You anchor out very often?

2 You arrive in a crowded anchorage or a soon to be crowded anchorage with a gentle but changing wind blowing, do you set your double anchors up knowing they will almost certainly interfere with the people swinging on the hook nearby?

3. When another boat having an appropriate rode deployed ultimately swings into your boat, what do you do and say to the unsuspecting boater who's following the established rules of anchoring?
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Old 02-07-2016, 14:59   #71
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Re: Getting comfortable with anchoring is really liberating

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Originally Posted by ViribusUnitis View Post
In a crowded anchorage, do you leave out your fenders?
I just put out all my fenders. I guess they are more use out than in a locker.

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Old 02-07-2016, 15:22   #72
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Re: Getting comfortable with anchoring is really liberating

Collisions with yachts anchored "too close" are not common. Fenders don't do much good. A boat anchored too close if they do hit, which is fortunatly rare, will normally strike as the stern swings into you. When this occurs the area of contact is small and it is unlikely a fender will be in correct position, but having a roving fender handy is better than having to dig one out of a locker.

A boat hook is the major weapon

In my experience collisions with dragging yachts are far more common than boats that are anchored too close. Dragging boats will also hit with far more force.

Most collisions between yachts that are anchored 'too close" occur because the anchors of both boats are "too close". If the anchors are close and the scopes are similar eventually the boats will come together. On the other hand if the anchors are well separated even if the boats are close they will gradually drift apart. Keep track of where your anchor is located. Especially if the wind is light. If a new arrival has a similar scope, anchor separation is the major factor in predicting if a swinging collision will occur.

This is too close:



But collisions from dragging, like this, are far more common and serious. This was only in very light wind



Overall you should worry far more about the boat that is anchored directly upwind with a poor anchor than the boat that is anchored too close.
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Old 02-07-2016, 15:29   #73
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Re: Getting comfortable with anchoring is really liberating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
There has been a lot of vigorous discussion about the merits or demerits of tandem anchoring, so I thought your post might stimulate more conversation on that. Here is some good work done on tandem anchoring: Two to Tandem: Maximizing Holding Power by Tandem Anchoring
Though I respect Peter came up with a clever anchor, the article on tandems is almost entirely wrong. The ONLY thing he got right was the need for 2x scope.

Why so adamant? I was commissioned to do a whole lot of instrumented testing on tandems, and while I agree they have uses on rock, cobbles, and shingle, on sand and mud they are nearly always no better than a single anchor, and often worse. Why? because they trip on a wind shift every time and do not reset.

If you disagree, please go test it. Take picture of them holding after a shift. Bring numbers. Yes, it may have "worked" for you, but I am quite sure that a single anchor would have worked also.. unless it was the aforementioned rock, cobbles, or shingle. They can also work as part of a multi-point mooring; they are used on platforms and by the USN. But there are NO WIND SHIFTS in those applications.

I really wanted it to work. Might be handy. I really tried, on sand, mud, beaches, and with multiple anchor types. Even his own images show barely set anchors ready to roll out. I think it was just an advertising thing, since his is the only anchor with a tandem hole. It turns out there is a good reason few add them; the actual use is very limited.
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Old 02-07-2016, 15:38   #74
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Re: Getting comfortable with anchoring is really liberating

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Why so adamant? I was commissioned to do a whole lot of instrumented testing on tandems, and while I agree they have uses on rock, cobbles, and shingle, on sand and mud they are nearly always no better than a single anchor, and often worse. Why? because they trip on a wind shift every time and do not reset.
I'm far from an expert, but I do anchor a lot. I've never quantified my anchoring, but this parallels my experience. I've played with many different anchor lays. A tandem anchor is a specialized tool that is definitely useful in certain conditions. My conclusion is that, as a general anchoring technique, tandem anchoring is worse than a single proper-sized anchor, on proper rode, and most importantly, proper set technique.
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Old 02-07-2016, 15:42   #75
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Re: Getting comfortable with anchoring is really liberating

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what woke us up was the wind generator. Fortunately, we did not have an extremely noisy one. It did, however, pipe up a good bit when the wind increased in a squall. This was enough to rouse the crew to check out the situation. We left that wind generator on the vast majority of the time for just that reason.
We got rid of our wind generator for the same reason.
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