Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-02-2005, 23:51   #1
Senior Cruiser
 
Alan Wheeler's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Marlborough Sounds. New Zealand
Boat: Hartley Tahitian 45ft. Leisure Lady
Posts: 8,038
Images: 102
Genoa tracks and rails.

An interesting idea popped into my head as I was reading Cascade fixers Toe rail dilema. Here is my dilema and I would love to hear from you guy's some thoughts on whether I am on the right track or not.
OK, so I have at present, the genoa track fixed to the outside edge of the deck. The Genoa is a No2. Or if I have understood the name correctly, comes around past the Main mast to about half way between mast and pilot house. I am not sure what that is called in %. But anyhoo, I have a problem with the geno/sheets/railing. I only have a short distance that I can change the position on the track of the car. The sheet has to go trough under the railing, and its point along the track is determined by the stauntions. Does that paint a clear enough picture??
Soooo, why don't I take the Genoa track OUTSIDE the railing and fix it onto the belting. The belting seems solid enough and is supported enough to do so. Comments/advice anyone???
__________________

__________________
Wheels

For God so loved the world..........He didn't send a committee.
Alan Wheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-02-2005, 02:23   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Currently based near Jacksonville FL; WHOOSH's homeport is St. Pete, FL USA
Boat: WHOOSH, Pearson 424 Ketch
Posts: 591
Fellow sailors, separated by a common language...

Alan, I think you describe your issue clearly: your ability to adjust your sheeting angle (for different points of sail, and also when using different headsails) is limited by the location of your stanchions...and so, what to do about it.

What isn't clear to me is what you mean by 'beltings'. Are you thinking of attaching genoa track to a rub rail (usually some distance below the caprail & bolted horizontally thru the hull)? Or are you considering using the outside, vertical surface of the caprail? Or is there some third connotation for 'beltings'?

I would be wary of using either of the two surfaces I mentioned above. The track fasteners would, in both cases, be bolted horizontally & would see asymetric tension from the block thur which the sheet passes. Over time there will be tendency for the fasteners to bend and the bedding compound to lift.

I have this problem to some degree on WHOOSH and my approach was to add an additional, stationary sheet block further aft (in my case, on the genoa track, but you could also place it on a fixed bail since it's position never changes). Thus, the sheet passes thru the forward (adjustable) block and then thru the stationary block before going to the winch. The aft block's position was chosen so that the lead is always fair to the winch, yet it allowed me a wider range of adjustment for the genoa block than if the sheet had to be led to the winch directly. It also kept the sheet away from the side deck at the cockpit coaming, improving the act of stepping out of/into the cockpit somewhat. You might look at your own boat's geometry and see if that would help.

Jack
__________________

__________________
Euro Cruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-02-2005, 11:16   #3
Registered User
 
jim lee's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Anacortes, WA
Boat: J/35 - No Tomorrows
Posts: 180
Images: 3
I -think- I had a simular problem on my boat. Being designed with only racing in mind my genoa & jib tracks are mounted up next to the cabin sides. My big genny sheets inside the railings againced the shrouds and the smaller jib sheets are led inside the shrouds. This works great going hard to weather but as soon as we crack off just a little, the sail shape goes to poot.

What to do?

I ran blocks on the toerail tracks for reaching. I'd rig twin sheets on the jib/genoa. The standard set to the primary wenches and a reaching set to the cabin top secondaries and out to the toe rail blocks. Working to weather I'd use the standard setup leaving the reaching sheets loose and when cracking off I'd take up the load on the reaching sheets.

Did it help? Well.. The sail shape sure looked better and that made me feel better, so at least it helped in that sense.

Would a quad sheet setup help in your case? Donno' but it may open up some options for you to think about.

-jim lee
__________________
J/35 No Tomorrows
jim lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-02-2005, 11:39   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
Alan Wheeler's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Marlborough Sounds. New Zealand
Boat: Hartley Tahitian 45ft. Leisure Lady
Posts: 8,038
Images: 102
Yes Jack, you had the picture correct. It was the rub strip around the hull, just below the capping. It is close to 2" thick and I thought I maybe able to mount on it's top edge. Thanks for the warning on that.
Jim, I am not sure the quad idea would work for me, at least at the mo. I only have one set of whinches, but we are in early days of setting her up. So maybe this is what I have to look at.

Back to jack, it's not the lead in to the Clutchbrake/Winch that is the problem. That part is good. Its from the track car out to the clew of the Sail that is my problem. I should mention that this is a furling headsail, so the track car moves a considerable distance along the track depending on where the sail is furled to. I have shrouds to get aroumnd as one obsticle. Then if I take the sheet over top of the rail, The rail makes the sheet take a sharp angle and thus a tremedouse force is applied the the rail and the sheet angle is all up the wop. If I take the sheet under the rail, I am limited to forward/rear car travel for different furled positions and I run into a mess of a problem when tacking across to the otherside and having this sheet coming under and back over the rail and getting caught up around the shrouds.

Now I do think I may have found one source of my problem. I have fitted the track close to the outside edge of the deck. Right beside the toe rail. I discovered in some pictures last night, that many boats place that track on the inside next to the cabin. This may give me a little more clearance of the rail, but I am not sure it will be perfect. But my big problem is still the shrouds. I have also realised that the track being further outside the vessel will mean the sail could never be pulled in hard. If the track is in closer to the centre line of the boat, then the sail can also be pulled in harder to that cntre line. Looks like I just have to keep playing with ideas. But keep the thoughts coming if you or anyone has anything further to add.

__________________
Wheels

For God so loved the world..........He didn't send a committee.
Alan Wheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2005, 05:19   #5
Registered User
 
djakunda's Avatar

Join Date: May 2003
Location: 20.17S 148.47E
Posts: 9
Images: 4


Hello,,, we have one of these, yes only one
the other broke and we are having a bugger of a time finding another,,,

Have you seen a jib car like this anywhere?
__________________
djakunda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2005, 07:56   #6
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,586
Images: 240
djakunda:
Sorry, my eyes ain't what they should be. Is the car fixed or sliding (on toe rail)?

Take a look at the Fixed (Folding) Triangular Toe-Rail Mounted Pad-Eye Johnson Marine (C. Sherman Johnson Co.) #48-526 ($50)
Catalog page 27:
http://www.csjohnson.com/pages/onlin...ne/page_27.htm
CSJohnson home: http://www.csjohnson.com/home.html

I've been very satisfied with the (similar) Rail-Mounted Cleats on the previous cat. page.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2005, 23:49   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
djakunda,

Are any of these toerails one of yours? If so, Rig-rite or Welmax Marine may know where to get them.

http://www.rigrite.com/Hardware/Toer...ot_Toerail.htm
__________________

__________________
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Genoa

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:46.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.