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Old 08-04-2006, 12:26   #1
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Genoa tracks?

I'm in the process of replacing the 110% jib with a 135% genoa. Are genoa tracks a must or can I use the existing cleats and winches?
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Old 08-04-2006, 13:20   #2
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Genoa/jib lead angle

Visualize or measure a point half way up the genoa luff. "Draw" a line from that point throught the clew to the point where you may conveniently place a block which allows the tightest sheeting towards the centerline of the boat. This will approximate your best chance of performance without a genoa track.

Now the reality is that an optimum turning block placement will be in three-dimensional space not easiy made. If you have a track fore and aft of that determined point you can more optimally adjust for varying wind speeds and, therefore, the fullness of the set in the sail. If you can rig a barberhaul inboard you can adjust for better pointing adjustment on the wind.

Does this help?
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Old 08-04-2006, 13:31   #3
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Plus if you have or ever will have and Furling Genoa, then track is a must. I also find that depending on the wind angle, I tend to slide the car forward or back. It depends in the sail is sheeted in hard and I am hard into the wind or if the wind is more aft and I have the sail out full.
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Old 08-04-2006, 14:43   #4
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A roller furler is part of the re-fit.
Any suggestions for a system for a hunter 23?
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Old 08-04-2006, 18:50   #5
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I agree with whats been said before. Two suggestions I can think of are

1) See if you can get info from the class Association. Best We can do is give you theory. No reason to reinvent the wheel.

2) Ask your sailmaker the proper distance for the track. Lead position is affected by clew height off the deck even when there are two 135% Genoas.

3) If you have toe rails where you can hook a snatch block use that to identify how far from the tack fitting your Genoa lead will want to be. Then ask the sailmaker what angle (off the center line) he designed the sail for and place a nice long track there.

There are many ways to determine proper lead poisiton. The one I was first taught was that when you luff up and tell tales at the top middle and bottom all break at the same time that is the correct lead position. I could never see enough difference on the telltales unless the lead was miles off.

I subscribe to managing your lead similar to an outhaul. If its light you want more belly pull the lead forward. When the wind picks up move the lead back to flatten the bottom of the sail and to twist off the top of the sail spilling some power. I hope this helps

Charlie

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Old 10-04-2006, 16:53   #6
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I couldn't concieve of not having genoa tracks. Ideally, genoa tracks with a purchase system running back to the cockpit, giving the ability to slide the sheet car forward and aft, easily, at will. The ability to open and close the headsail leech according to the conditions makes the ride quicker, and more importantly, more comfortable.
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Old 11-04-2006, 00:44   #7
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YES!! tracks with a purchase system. I don't....YET!!!.....
I have a very nice track system with darn expensive cars. Yet I still can't shift the flamin cars when the Genoa is under a good load. I am going to fit a purchase system to help. Ummm, after I sort the mast out of course.
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Old 11-04-2006, 08:57   #8
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How's the mast going? Anything new?

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Old 11-04-2006, 10:46   #9
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I'm re-rigging the forestay right now for the roller furler. Instead of the stay terminating in the anchor locker I made a stainless fork that gets the pin 4 inches above the deck.


Here it is installed


Now the next issue. The side deck has two planes. As you can see in the photo below from where the shrouds attach it goes back flat for about 5 feet, then it changes to a fairly sharp angle about 2 feet in front of the whinch. So I can make a track that starts about the chain plates and goes aft about 4 feet. Don't know if that will be effective or not.
Any thoughts?
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Old 11-04-2006, 13:35   #10
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Hi Charlie, no further witht he mast yet. I am interested in one from Greg in Oz, but I don't know when I can afford it. So I told him to go ahead and sell if he gets a buyer. I don't want to hold him up.

bmiller, make sure you polish that new SST fork you made. Grind an polish the welds. It will protect it from crevice corrosion.
A question, the "gunwhale" not that you really have one, but that small rise at the extreme edge, is that solid or can you get to the underneath for bolts? I would look at placing the track along that. But I don't know too much about this area, so do take advice from others.
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Old 11-04-2006, 14:49   #11
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Bmiller:

Were you able to get any of the info from you sailmaker about how he designed the sail? If not I would wait till the sail arrives and then on a day with light winds hoist the sail attach a jib sheet to it and then step on the jib sheet where you think the lead might go. From the pictures you''ve shown it is impossible to tell where the tracks should go. You can get an aproximate if you know the lenths of the leach and the foot but I think using the sail will serve you better. From there you need to know whether where the track should go is solid enough. Sailmaker should be able to give you the info. Here is the name I got off the US Sailing website for the Hunter 23 Association. measurement.mikeepp@mindspring.com <mikeepp@mindspring.com>

Charlie
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Old 11-04-2006, 15:45   #12
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Thanks for all the advice.
When I ordered the sail I told the sail maker where I planned on installing the tracks. He asked for the most fore and aft measurements from the bow as well as the measurement from top of halyard to the same points fore and aft. Before I start drilling I'll certainly use the methods mentioned above to be sure it's going to work. As far as if it will be solid enough, the new track will be in the same area that the original deck hardware is for the original jib.

I'll check out the site you mentioned.

Thanks again, Bill
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Old 11-04-2006, 16:04   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler
YES!! tracks with a purchase system. I don't....YET!!!.....
I have a very nice track system with darn expensive cars. Yet I still can't shift the flamin cars when the Genoa is under a good load. I am going to fit a purchase system to help. Ummm, after I sort the mast out of course.
I may be stating the flaming obvious, but, you only need the purchase system forward of the car; the sheet tension is plenty enough to move the car aft.

Generally, people seem to use a fixed point at the shrouds for the forward pulley block (the aft one is on the front of the sheet car, of course). If you have twin genoa tracks (i.e. an outboard track for "free sheeting" when reaching), you can easily just run two lines from the aft pulley block. It is generally a good idea to run shot cord aft from the sheet car(s) to a fixed point aft of your aftmost car position - this will stop the cars from "wandering about" when not in tension from the sheet. The tail of the pulley system is usually run directly aft , round a turning block and into the cockpit, where a small cam-cleat will finish the system off.
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Old 11-04-2006, 16:36   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmiller
The side deck has two planes. As you can see in the photo below from where the shrouds attach it goes back flat for about 5 feet, then it changes to a fairly sharp angle about 2 feet in front of the whinch. So I can make a track that starts about the chain plates and goes aft about 4 feet. Don't know if that will be effective or not
The 2 planes on the side deck are quite common; they are designed to prevent water running along the side deck and into the cockpit - the small step is supposed to direct the water over the gunwales.

The length of your genoa track is very much dependent on the range of car positions required to accommodate all the possible car positions that you might want to adopt.

For example, on my boat, I have 3 tracks each side:
1. The main track is about 8' long and runs aft from the shrouds. This is for windward work and can accomodate the full range of car positions for my #1L, #1R, #2, #3.

2. The outboard track is about 5' long and is parallel to the main track about 15" further outboard (I have very wide side decks). This is used for "free-sheeting" when reaching or running-reaching

3. The forward track is about 3' long, also parallel to the main track, about 4" inboard and runs 18" fore and aft of the shrouds. This track is used for the #4 and the storm jib.

I have also crewed on boats with up to 5 tracks each side.

Obviously, on your boat, from the photos, your side deck is fairly narrow. I am guessing you will not be needing any "outboard tracks". Whether you can accommodate the full range of car positions for your headsails with a single track; that is the question. Most crusiers carry furling headsails - maybe a 135% gib and a 100% jib (and probably a small storm jib). I am not particularly familiar with car tracks for such arrangements, but I would hazard a guess that one would, ideally, need about a 3' track for the genoa and about 2' for the jib. Usually storm sails are high-cut so one would probably be able to accommodate that on the forward end of the jib track.
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Old 12-04-2006, 16:47   #15
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bmiller, I made the same modification to my forestay on my 87 h23 a couple of years ago, your gonna love it. I was wondering what brand of roller furler you purchased. I was thinking of going with a CDI, but since I shortened my forestay length, wasn't sure which model would be appropriate. Thanks
Dave
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