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Old 10-03-2016, 06:01   #76
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

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Originally Posted by tp12 View Post
Which itself may also be reflective of the attitudes displayed, general tone and so on which may be representative of sailing culture generally ...
This forum is pretty bad, haha. In so many posts, the men talk about themselves as "the sailor" and their wife/GF as "the admiral". Jokingly, of course ... but not really. And not just on this forum - same here in the Netherlands, and same thing in real life too.

Keeping the Admiral happy is a full time job, and very hard on the man. The Admiral only likes boats that aren't suitable for cruising or any serious sailing, but she loves the floating apartments that have a large galley, cute upholstery and a hair dryer.

Obviously, the Admiral doesn't sail, but the man has adapted the routes and places to visit, and only sets sail in decent weather, so the Admiral doesn't get scared when the boat heels.

Anyway - I think we all know how it goes

I am so used to this general tone & attitude that I barely even notice anymore - it's just the way it is. But yes, I do know plenty of women who aren't used to it (only introduced to sailing later in life) who are very, very put off by it. And in all honesty: even I need a break from it at times.
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Old 10-03-2016, 06:38   #77
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pirate Re: Gender parity in sailing

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Nice post, carsten.

I'll explain why I have stayed out of this discussion so far... There is not going to be in my lifetime, anyway, parity for women, so to some extent it's a waste of time. The are too many interlocking factors, physiological and societal, so there is not "only one" thing to "fix", but many. Despite the shining examples of Isabelle (though she was hard on machinery) and Ellen, (some questionable business ethics) as sailors, women sailors are joining a men's club, and will, normally, experience resistance from those males who do not want to relinquish their top of the mountain privelege. Normal human behavior, unlikely to change. With change of all society towards more gender equality, this ratio of women to men boat owner/skippers will probably change, according to individual predilection. Such change will partly come from women who sail, setting examples for the rest of the females.

There are more good female sailor examples out there today than 50 yrs. ago for the interested women/girls to be inspired by, which will help those females inclined. We should be proud to have those here on CF who are leading the way, Zeehag, Gamayun, Lizzy Belle, and others. There's still a lot of male chauvinism in the world, even in SF and the Netherlands, fairly liberal areas....

Let others play the feminist game, you women out there lurking, just get on with it and do it, in ways that suit yourselves, and ironically, that makes you a feminist, anyway.

Ann
Good post Ann.. there tends to be a kind of 'Bully Mentality' that exists where some men seem incapable of accepting that some women just are not interested in sailing.. much less learning how to.. often they'll tag along to just to humour their petulant 'Man Child'..
How many Threads are started with.. 'How can I convince the wife this is the Life for her??'
Inference being 'She's to thick to know what's good for her'
I know at least 3 women who want to sail.. so much so they're prepared to buy their own boat to do it.. however the husband's are not into it and dismiss them as 'Silly woman.. must be the change of life messing her head'.. or.. your place is here running the home not chasing after men on boats.. what can you do but cook and clean.. thus totally slicing their legs from under them..
So they put aside the 'Dream' and soldier on with this thought in their minds.
A
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Old 10-03-2016, 06:45   #78
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

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How many Threads are started with.. 'How can I convince the wife this is the Life for her??'
The advise given in those threads is usually even worse
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Old 10-03-2016, 06:50   #79
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

Interesting...

out of 78 posts, 13 of them are (presumably) from women.
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Old 10-03-2016, 06:54   #80
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

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Because the woman can't criticize the driver otherwise.
I'm navigating.
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Old 10-03-2016, 07:14   #81
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

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I'm navigating.
traditional wisdom says women can't read maps - that's why GPS was invented:flowe rs:
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Old 10-03-2016, 08:00   #82
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

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traditional wisdom says women can't read maps - that's why GPS was invented:flowe rs:
OR........ traditional wisdom says men don't ask for directions - and that's really why GPS was invented.
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Old 10-03-2016, 08:03   #83
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

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Men and women are different, period. Personally, I think that's a good thing

Equal does not mean 'the same', and generally speaking, men do have more muscle and strength - just one of the many differences.
Well said.
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Old 14-03-2016, 15:25   #84
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

Nice picture of Dame Ellen. You're exaggerating her height, she's 5'2"
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Old 14-03-2016, 16:06   #85
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

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Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff View Post
My wife and I co-own our boat. We each have 32 shares out of the mandatory 64 shares for a vessel on the Aussie ships register..

My wife has the sailing background. Started as a 2 year old, then 11 years on a defence force interservice sailing team and a couple of Sydney to Hobarts.

I'm the engineer. Sailing experience. 1 freshwater race as crew and I slept on a boat once.

We are co captains. As part of our pre departure briefings we explain that my wife and i are in charge. Whoever has the helm is in charge at any point in time.

We tend to split our time close to fifty fifty at the helm. We've been living aboard for 2/1/2 years now and we sail regularly.
+1

This is exactly how my partner and I have always sailed, cruised and indeed, lived. There is no "Admiral and Captain" on our boat. If someone insists on titles, then we are co-captains, but titles on a small cruising boat seem pretty unnecessary to me. We both do it all.

Women and men are different (and a damn good thing ). Sometimes these differences help with specific tasks, but mostly it matters not. The normal operation of our vessel requires no exceptional strength, and we even use a manual windlass

As Ann says, this is a part of our evolving social/societal norms regarding gender. Western societies have mostly moving rather dramatically (due to the efforts of the women's movement), but it will take time for gender-parity-nirvana to be found. Not much sense gnashing teeth over it -- just don't be part of the problem.
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Old 24-03-2016, 16:39   #86
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

My wife and I function well together as everything is negotiable,- who's at the helm, who's navigating, who's the "captain", who's planning the activities,...... , but out among the community, male or female, it's a "jungle". Some people are respectful of all and some are bent on establishing their pecking order. Some are confident and will allow others to assert themselves as they please and others are in defense of their position. Some attack and some smile and nod. This issue is beyond a variance of male and female it's just as often "people parity".

When any of us, of either sex, enter in conversation with a small group in person or online, we soon identify those that are in pursuit of establishing their rank and those that are less concerned with establishing dominance. I would make the guess that there are a greater number of males that have a concern with the image of dominance, but there's no rule to this.

Am I wrong in my impression that those seeking this dominance are the same ones that garner less respect?
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Old 24-03-2016, 17:18   #87
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pirate Re: Gender parity in sailing

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Nice picture of Dame Ellen. You're exaggerating her height, she's 5'2"
What can I say.. Stilettos are deceiving.
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Old 24-03-2016, 19:45   #88
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

Margaret Dye--Author of Dinghy Cruising, the book that got me started. Sailed with Frank dye in a wayfarer from Albion to Scotland. No, I have no idea why things are they way they are, but they needn't be.


Margaret, Dye, 'nuff said.
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Old 24-03-2016, 20:02   #89
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

Parity is boring!
I prefer that we challenge ourselves to exceed the expectations of others, regardless of any perceived disadvantage
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Old 24-03-2016, 20:32   #90
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

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Originally Posted by Hudson Force View Post
My wife and I function well together as everything is negotiable,- who's at the helm, who's navigating, who's the "captain", who's planning the activities,...... , but out among the community, male or female, it's a "jungle". Some people are respectful of all and some are bent on establishing their pecking order. Some are confident and will allow others to assert themselves as they please and others are in defense of their position. Some attack and some smile and nod. This issue is beyond a variance of male and female it's just as often "people parity".
+1

Like with all social change, the old guard (usually, but not always, the old farts) are the last to change. Parity is not about everyone being the same. It's about not prejudging or pigeon-holing based on what jangly bits one has.
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