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Old 09-03-2016, 06:47   #61
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

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Originally Posted by tuffr2 View Post
It is the difference between testosterone and estrogen.

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Interesting how this is forgotten in the march to "anyone can do anything".

Yes we are higher functioning/thinking beings but we still have basic chemistry that DOES affect/influence us, no matter how hard we try to think/socially change it.

My step-daughters (16/19) are part of the modern generation, smart, driven, no barriers exist to them and NEITHER wants to drive our boat, ride on my motorcycle, race cars, etc. Can they? Yup! Again though they have NO DESIRE to do so...and most of the woman I know, old and young, are the same way.
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Old 09-03-2016, 06:51   #62
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

It's a pity that the opinions exhibited here are from men. We really don't know what it's like to be female and cannot truly relate to what females experience. Men can only observe and extrapolate from their experiences.

'until you walk in someone's shoes' and all that.
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Old 09-03-2016, 06:53   #63
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

Equal opportunity should exist... but the fact that some things are girly and others appeal to boys makes for diversity. There should be no gender barriers to things like sailing or engineering... but the gender disparity is nothing to be concerned about.
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Old 09-03-2016, 06:54   #64
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

And woman cannot express what it is like to be a man/live in today's world as a man. However we can attempt to empathize, understand, and discuss each others views based on our experiences and understanding.

Somehow I am in a "privileged" position though I can say I have never seen it, but some say I do because I have dangly-bits, rather patronizing if you ask me but it is someones viewpoint.

With that said, I do think that the most recent generations of woman are not "held back" so much by society but by internal biology, again though just one persons opinion.
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Old 09-03-2016, 06:58   #65
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

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We really don't know what it's like to be female and cannot truly relate to what females experience.
Nothing we usually don't just laugh off, when it comes to sailing. But sometimes, I do get annoyed ...

For instance when I arrived at a brokers office to view a boat. I was told to take a seat and enjoy a coffee while I waited. I assumed I was waiting for the broker.
Turns out, when after a while I asked if the broker would be ready soon, they were waiting for my husband to arrive ...



Even after explaining I was single, the idiot didn't really know how to handle this "unfamiliar situation" and he just rambled on about whatever he thought a girl might think important when looking at a boat. Don't think he believed I was really planning to buy. And after an hour or so, I didn't want to buy via him - self-fulfilling prophecy
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Old 09-03-2016, 07:01   #66
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Gender parity in sailing

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Originally Posted by Lodesman View Post
I found it ironic that an article espousing gender equality on one issue, actually perpetuates gender bias in other ways:


as if women are incapable of doing the "heavy lifting."


Yes in more than 90% of the cases they are.

Get over it folks as a statistical norm men have greater upper body strength than women. Likewise most women can differentiate color better than men.

Now I am sure someone knows "Sally" who can swing 10 lb. hammers with each hand versus Biff who has zero upper body strength. But we are talking statistical norms.


Sent from my iPhone- please forgive autocorrect errors.
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Old 09-03-2016, 09:02   #67
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

I'm not sure about the title of this thread gender parity Parity implies completely equal.

My wife is a Yachtmaster Ocean has her Long Rangeaio certificate and for some reason also her Motormans proficiency eam (yes she can repair the diesel engine).

We can both do virtually any job on board but because I have greater upper body strength I tend to do those jobs. She's great at reading grib files and weather forecasting so she tens t do that. We both helm and tend the sheets since we sail two-handed which means when I'm asleep she's singlehanding (and vice versa).

Uncivilized noted that (in general) women and men have different learning styles, which I agree with. Because of these different styles, women tend not to just "jump in" and start sailing - they like to get the theory right first.

Do we need parity? no. We need sailing to offer equal opportunity for both males and females to become competent sailors, including catering to both learning styles.
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Old 09-03-2016, 15:12   #68
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

Nice post, carsten.

I'll explain why I have stayed out of this discussion so far... There is not going to be in my lifetime, anyway, parity for women, so to some extent it's a waste of time. The are too many interlocking factors, physiological and societal, so there is not "only one" thing to "fix", but many. Despite the shining examples of Isabelle (though she was hard on machinery) and Ellen, (some questionable business ethics) as sailors, women sailors are joining a men's club, and will, normally, experience resistance from those males who do not want to relinquish their top of the mountain privelege. Normal human behavior, unlikely to change. With change of all society towards more gender equality, this ratio of women to men boat owner/skippers will probably change, according to individual predilection. Such change will partly come from women who sail, setting examples for the rest of the females.

There are more good female sailor examples out there today than 50 yrs. ago for the interested women/girls to be inspired by, which will help those females inclined. We should be proud to have those here on CF who are leading the way, Zeehag, Gamayun, Lizzy Belle, and others. There's still a lot of male chauvinism in the world, even in SF and the Netherlands, fairly liberal areas....

Let others play the feminist game, you women out there lurking, just get on with it and do it, in ways that suit yourselves, and ironically, that makes you a feminist, anyway.

Ann
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Old 09-03-2016, 15:23   #69
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

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Originally Posted by Snore View Post
Yes in more than 90% of the cases they are.

Get over it folks as a statistical norm men have greater upper body strength than women. Likewise most women can differentiate color better than men.

Now I am sure someone knows "Sally" who can swing 10 lb. hammers with each hand versus Biff who has zero upper body strength. But we are talking statistical norms.
Zoom!

Seriously though, it doesn't take a lot of upper body strength to handle fenders and most linehandling chores. More to the point, it makes no sense to say women are equally capable of doing what men can do, in the same sentence where it's implied that deck jobs are solely the man's domain.
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Old 09-03-2016, 15:29   #70
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

My wife and I co-own our boat. We each have 32 shares out of the mandatory 64 shares for a vessel on the Aussie ships register..

My wife has the sailing background. Started as a 2 year old, then 11 years on a defence force interservice sailing team and a couple of Sydney to Hobarts.

I'm the engineer. Sailing experience. 1 freshwater race as crew and I slept on a boat once.

We are co captains. As part of our pre departure briefings we explain that my wife and i are in charge. Whoever has the helm is in charge at any point in time.

We tend to split our time close to fifty fifty at the helm. We've been living aboard for 2/1/2 years now and we sail regularly.

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Old 09-03-2016, 15:30   #71
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

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Originally Posted by Lodesman View Post
I found it ironic that an article espousing gender equality on one issue, actually perpetuates gender bias in other ways:


as if women are incapable of doing the "heavy lifting."
Yep, it certainly doesn't help;

Quote:
Originally Posted by AD28 View Post
It's a pity that the opinions exhibited here are from men. We really don't know what it's like to be female and cannot truly relate to what females experience. Men can only observe and extrapolate from their experiences.

'until you walk in someone's shoes' and all that.
There's been a number of women posting in this thread and with varying opinions. It's probably reflective of the split of sexes in the active membership of the forum. Which itself may also be reflective of the attitudes displayed, general tone and so on which may be representative of sailing culture generally ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
I'm not sure about the title of this thread gender parity Parity implies completely equal.

My wife is a Yachtmaster Ocean has her Long Rangeaio certificate and for some reason also her Motormans proficiency eam (yes she can repair the diesel engine).

We can both do virtually any job on board but because I have greater upper body strength I tend to do those jobs. She's great at reading grib files and weather forecasting so she tens t do that. We both helm and tend the sheets since we sail two-handed which means when I'm asleep she's singlehanding (and vice versa).

Uncivilized noted that (in general) women and men have different learning styles, which I agree with. Because of these different styles, women tend not to just "jump in" and start sailing - they like to get the theory right first.

Do we need parity? no. We need sailing to offer equal opportunity for both males and females to become competent sailors, including catering to both learning styles.
Great post.
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Old 09-03-2016, 15:31   #72
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

Men and women are different, period. Personally, I think that's a good thing

Equal does not mean 'the same', and generally speaking, men do have more muscle and strength - just one of the many differences.

In 'my ideal world', we accept and appreciate those difference while treating each other as equals.
Sadly, that won't happen during my time, but who knows - we may get there one day
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Old 09-03-2016, 15:38   #73
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

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Originally Posted by Boathooked View Post
Somehow I am in a "privileged" position though I can say I have never seen it, but some say I do because I have dangly-bits, rather patronizing if you ask me but it is someones viewpoint.

With that said, I do think that the most recent generations of woman are not "held back" so much by society but by internal biology, again though just one persons opinion.
I don't think you'll see it, as it's your 'normal', unless you looked for it and spoke to women about their experiences. I'm sorry you find it patronising but it's not really about you; it's about providing equal opportunity for a group in our society who haven't enjoyed what we have.

The gender pay gap still exists. there's still glass ceilings for women in many organisations. Sure, things have changed for the better, but it's still not equal and we have more work to do.
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Old 09-03-2016, 19:00   #74
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

Men and women are a celebrated in the fact there are 6.5 billion people on earth. So what ever bias exists does not exists all the time. The biolology is working.

No one has ever told me life is fair. I wish I was as intelligent as my wife but I am not.

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Old 10-03-2016, 03:51   #75
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

When at work.
I work with lots of women who are just as fully capable of anything anyone else is. I actively promote equality for everyone.
When I go sailing I am on my own time in my own space and I don't give a rats ass.
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