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Old 07-03-2016, 12:20   #46
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

Does the red button fire the machine guns?
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Old 07-03-2016, 12:25   #47
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

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Originally Posted by NoQuarter79 View Post
Cherp, I think Mark J is referring to that only 1 boat in 100 had a female at the helm being stupid, not the one woman. At least that is what I hope is meant.
Thank you

One would think couples could share the wheel. But they don't. He drives.


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Old 07-03-2016, 12:38   #48
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

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Does the red button fire the machine guns?
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Old 07-03-2016, 12:42   #49
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

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Originally Posted by Panope View Post
Daughter is 7 years old. Born in the "girls can do anything" era and she has virtually no concept of gender limitation. I apply this to parenting (actually I rarely mention gender, I just tell her that YOU can do anything).

Before her 2nd birthday, I was having her take the controls of airplanes, steering the motorboat, the car (off-road), and more recently I offer her the rowing position of the dinghy and the helm of Panope anytime.

She is very smart, requires (prefers) almost no instruction, and can immediately figure out what needs to be done. But.............

She does not WANT do do any of it. There has never been any bad experiences. I do not force her to do anything. I give her the opportunities and she just shrugs and says "no thank you".

When I was her age, true bliss occurred only when I was driving something. I used to beg my father to let me "drive the car" (sitting on is lap). He is not a flyer but I would have given ANYTHING to get my hands on the controls of a plane.

I believe there is basic part of our "wiring" that tends to have the boys enjoy driving/operating mechanical stuff more than girls do.

Steve
Yep, this. Barriers...? What barriers?

How many generations has it been since girls grew up hearing how they must have a man to provide or do most everything because they were the weaker sex? It wasn't that long ago that a single woman sailing off by herself would be considered crazy.

Umm, oh wait. It still is, isn't it? Well, things are changing. Slowly.
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Old 07-03-2016, 12:52   #50
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

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Yep, this. Barriers...? What barriers?




Umm, oh wait. It still is, isn't it? Well, things are changing. Slowly.

Yes slowly. When my wife was in high school the only careers she knew about for women were teaching, nursing or being a secretary. Now for our granddaughters things are better ... But there is a long way to go to parity. At the current pace of change maybe in a few hundred years we will make it into the 21st century.


S/V B'Shert
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Old 07-03-2016, 22:00   #51
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

It is the difference between testosterone and estrogen.

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Old 07-03-2016, 22:33   #52
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

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One would think couples could share the wheel. But they don't. He drives.

Mark
Not always. My dear wife is far better at docking the boat that I am. (3.2m wide boat in a 3.5m wide slip) So she does that. She'd rather be on the helm than be deck monkey so I do that too. Almost all driving once we're out of the harbor is done by otto.

But she's fine with jumping up to the mast to raise/drop sails too. She'd just rather drive.

'Cept when we're watching whales. Then I get to singlehand and go whatever direction she's pointing. Which is usually dead into the wind.

Technically, she's sailed longer than I have too - grew up cruising the med on her grandfather's boat. Never learned much about sailing though - he was ex-navy and was a "just pull that thing" kind of sailor. I'm the opposite. If I've got a noob on board, I'll explain all about the aerodynamics - a sail is really an airplane wing and all that. A sheet controls the angle of attack of a sail, etc. She tells me not to do that as it's just too much for most folks. She's right, too.

Me, I have the bug bad. I sail almost any day I can. I'll fly the spinnaker just for the fun of it. She, not so much.
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Old 08-03-2016, 02:37   #53
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

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Originally Posted by AD28 View Post
Harumph.... My wife takes the helm for one simple reason: She's good at it.

On our first sailing voyage she grew SO exasperated at the men-folk's performance that when we returned she enrolled in a sailing school. Didn't matter that we were guests aboard that boat for the week, didn't matter that I was licensed (she KNEW that) and knew better about what to do because.... well, because I deferred to the skipper. She was livid. Absolutely livid.

For the next two years every sailing trip became a training trip. Just the two of us. Her Yacht Master's License was the result. That was 20-something years and thousands of sea miles ago.

The only times she defers driving to me is when reversing into a med mooring between other boats. On the other hand, she kept us off the reef once by deft helm action, skidding across wave tops while under sail with a grace I could't match. Though I tried! But she gained leeway with virtually every wave. And since our motor wasn't functional, well....

Hands-Free headsets resolved the shouting situation with docking, anchoring, fore-deck sail changes, get-up-the-mast work, etc.. Our center cockpit with a large wrap-around dodger tends to isolate the helmsman. Being able to calmly talk with each other regardless of environmental noise or wind-blown rain (and hand signals don't work well in the dark) reduces stress, miscommunication and makes that "anchor down beer" so much more enjoyable!

Anyway.... Either our "Helma" gets rigged or my wife takes the helm and I do the muscle work with anchor or dock lines or how be it. YMMV

James
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Old 08-03-2016, 04:20   #54
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Why is it that in nearly every car that I see containing one man and one woman, the man is driving?
Because the woman can't criticize the driver otherwise.
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Old 08-03-2016, 17:53   #55
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

Today is International Women's Day. This is quite a big deal in China and is a public holiday. My wife was asked by China Sailing magazine for a photo with her holding an informal sign about sailing. They put a feature on WeChat (a huge social media app) with prominent Chinese women sailors. These included June (the first Chinese woman to complete a circumnavigation), the second Chinese woman to go around the world (on the Clipper race), and several Olympic sailors. She is a very good sailor.
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Old 08-03-2016, 18:10   #56
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

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Originally Posted by AiniA View Post
Today is International Women's Day. This is quite a big deal in China and is a public holiday. My wife was asked by China Sailing magazine for a photo with her holding an informal sign about sailing. They put a feature on WeChat (a huge social media app) with prominent Chinese women sailors. These included June (the first Chinese woman to complete a circumnavigation), the second Chinese woman to go around the world (on the Clipper race), and several Olympic sailors. She is a very good sailor.
My wife lets me drive sometimes. Sometimes she lets me change impellers, change the oil or do the epoxy work. I think she is just humoring me
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Old 08-03-2016, 20:33   #57
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

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Originally Posted by AiniA View Post
Today is International Women's Day. This is quite a big deal in China and is a public holiday. My wife was asked by China Sailing magazine for a photo with her holding an informal sign about sailing. They put a feature on WeChat (a huge social media app) with prominent Chinese women sailors. These included June (the first Chinese woman to complete a circumnavigation), the second Chinese woman to go around the world (on the Clipper race), and several Olympic sailors. She is a very good sailor.
Pictures??
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Old 08-03-2016, 20:58   #58
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

I don't see the OP as trolling or even mischievous - it's a fair question and highlights the various (mis)understandings of what gender equality, gender parity etc actually mean and therefore what is inferred when they're not achieved.

It's interesting to me that the posters in this thread who decry the OP and claim there's no requirement for gender equality are either male or a female that has transcended gender stereotypes on her own. It's easy for those who have struggled through those barriers to suggest that those who haven't are weak, deficient or unwilling. Just as it's easy for males to say there's no requirement for it, sitting in their privileged position. We don't get to say that and it undermines the rather large body of research that proves that it exists. Gender pay gaps, for example, are an excellent indication.

One poster describes his admirable approach with his daughter as evidence that gender equality isn't required as an ethos yet espoused the exact virtues that gender equality represents. Unfortunately, while becoming more common, this is still an outlier approach and one that needs to be addressed through these types of conversations and an understanding of what, practically, needs to be done to achieve equality of opportunity. And, for the record, I'm not one who subscribes to the view that the only way to measure gender equality is through equal numbers of men and women on company boards and so on (gender parity), it's about changing societal views that support women in making choices in their lives that were traditionally the domain of men. Women are allowed to make their own choices and shouldn't be forced into roles that don't suit in order to fulfil some ratio or other metric.

As regards female skippers, it's already been said in this thread how sailing has been dominated by men and what the attitudes have been leading up til now. I don't need to rehash those excellent descriptions but will just add that equal opportunity won't exist until every parent, teacher, mentor, guide, employer, skipper etc takes the same approach as the aforementioned poster does with his daughter. He's actually a feminist, though I feel he'd be horrified at that thought I would guess.
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Old 09-03-2016, 04:24   #59
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Re: Gender parity in sailing

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- it's a fair question and highlights the various (mis)understandings of what gender equality, gender parity etc actually mean ...
I found it ironic that an article espousing gender equality on one issue, actually perpetuates gender bias in other ways:

Quote:
In 90 per cent of cases, or more, it will be the man at the wheel and the woman doing the heavy work of grappling with lines and fenders, jumping onto the dock and tying up.
Surely this is the wrong way round? In a logical world, it would make sense for the woman to be at the wheel and the man doing the lifting, throwing, jumping and pulling.
as if women are incapable of doing the "heavy lifting."
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Old 09-03-2016, 04:44   #60
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pirate Re: Gender parity in sailing

I find the whole matter Patronizing..
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