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Old 01-09-2012, 18:22   #31
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

It doesn't matter what you're buying. As long as you believe it may disappear before you get there to see it then you are going to pay too much. There's a negotiating concept called BATNA which stands for Best Alternative To a Negotiated Agreement. In this context it means that you must have an alternative boat in mind BEFORE you offer on any boat. The goal is to prevent you from falling in love with one specific boat and consequently paying too much. It works but most people don't do it.

To this specific situation, there's a glut of boats on the market. If this boat truly is overpriced then you can safely go look at it without worrying about it selling before you get there.
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Old 01-09-2012, 18:56   #32
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

tc girl--pull your offer. walk away. wait a lil time. see what the broker says then. also search for another exactly like the one you love so much---keep eyes open--there is usually a reason for the delay in cooperation.
one way or the other, the broker will come around--if he is bluffing, you will get a reaction by walking away.
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Old 01-09-2012, 19:00   #33
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

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Originally Posted by terminalcitygrl View Post
Further, I personally think it would be more foolish to pay for flights and hotel and to travel across country to see a boat without having some guarantee it would still be there when we arrived than to make a subject offer sight unseen but based on good research. But hey, to each their own.
I think it would be foolish to send a deposit with offer on a boat that hasn't been seen first-hand. I would recommend that if there is interest, you find someone who is knowledgeable (e.g. a surveyor) who can give the boat a quick once-over before you make the trip, just to verify the boa is "as advertised". I'm not talking about a full survey at this stage, just a verification that it looks to be as described, and to send you some images of any discrepancies, and showing the general present condition of the boat. A few hundred $ to the surveyor would be worth it if it saves you a useless trip.

I once drove 12 hours round-trip to see a boat that was not as advertised. (For example "ready to sail" in this case meant the sails have been bent on in the weather for at least 5 years without use, and the sail covers were falling off from UV degradation.)

You can get the full survey at a later date if you decide to move forward from there.
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Old 01-09-2012, 21:29   #34
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

BATNA - I totally know BATNA! (I have a certificate in conflict resolution)

Yes we love this boat but we do happen to actually be having a convo with someone who is selling the same boat but a little older and cheaper with more stuff. We are also considering another boat we like from another private seller who is almost local... So we have options. And yes, we want a "cream-puff" at a rock bottom price and I think we should be able to find one. I keep hearing the market is in solid buyers territory and don't see an improvement in the economy anytime soon. We're not looking to rip off a widow or anything but we're not wealthy and have no expectation that will change and we need to get a fair price on a good boat, it's that simple.

Thanks all for your advice and support.
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Old 01-09-2012, 22:57   #35
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Stick to your guns. These boats are out there. Pay what you are comfortable with. No more.
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Old 01-09-2012, 23:12   #36
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

TC Girl, one thing that I didn't see in this thread is whether the boat you are trying to buy is perhaps a very specific and uncommon model, and hence you are motivated to try to avoid what could be a whole lot of long-distance travel. Some of the generic advice that well-meaning posters have given might not be customized enough for your particular situation. Are any of the boats you are considering located in places where perhaps other CF forum members might be able to take a peek on your behalf?
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Old 02-09-2012, 00:30   #37
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

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Originally Posted by terminalcitygrl View Post
Oh give me a freakin' break. What part of "we're not total idiots" and "we're willing to walk away if it the boat wasn't as advertised" did you not understand?

Just because we love a boat doesn't mean we're going to overpay for it. We've done our homework, we know what we feel comfortable paying and we offered that. The broker thinks its too low because of a pie-in-the-sky initial list price. This thread was to post my frustration with this and see if others had run across similar problems, not to invite people to slam us for making an offer on a boat we hadn't seen in person because it's on the other side of the country.

We are looking at other boats, just looked at an original owner Alberg 30 and an Endurance 35 today and both were at rock bottom prices. They would be fine boats but surely aren't our preferred buy at this time. We know the market and if things don't work out with the boat we love at a price we think is fair then it's not meant to be our boat. We're okay with that.
Wow! you are frustrated...hope you find your boat ..soon....
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Old 02-09-2012, 02:34   #38
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

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That's the problem right there. There are plenty of other boats in the world, and many of them are much closer to home. I would never make an offer on a boat sight unseen, whether or not it is dependent on survey or whatever. It is very rare--almost unknown--for a boat to not have significant variance from its listing. For example, I have looked at a boat that nowhere in the listing did it note that the boat had been sunk, salvaged, and repaired. It was listed as in excellent condition, with the photos before the sinking to prove it! It was very well repaired, but if the owner hadn't happened along I would not have known that a huge hole had been knocked in the side of the hull, big enough to remove the trashed engine through.
The normal protocol in buying a boat is research it, choose then talk to the broker and ask if the owner will negotiate as the price is on the upper limit of your budget.

If you get a positive response then make an offer subject to whatever you wish (ie Finance/Survey/Inspection by yourself whatever) usually sight unseen unless in your locale. You may or may not pay a deposit with your signed offer.

If the owner accepts then you proceed with the provisions of the offer. You then either accept or reject or make a further offer based on what you have seen.

We travelled from Australia to States and did not proceed we then travelled to Europe and eventually found what we wanted.

Cheers Frank
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Old 02-09-2012, 05:24   #39
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

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Did you talk an offer or make one with a deposit,all offers are based upon personal inspection and survey sea trila or any other exception you wish to include,Money talks all brokers I,know get tired of Talk Offers.
This thread getting a bit lively - FWIW, I think OP going about things the right way. If a Vendor or Broker don't want to play ball then that is there problem not hers, unless she wants to make it hers.

The distance buying thing does add to the costs - I personally would not travel more than a daytrip by road to see a single specific boat until I knew that both me and the Vendor were in the same ballpark on price (whether that is me at asking or them at 50% off .....or somewhere in the middle). However I can't say I would make any firm offer, let alone sign a contract to buy until I had eyes on personally - but I appreciate others less risk averse than me.

If a Vendor / Broker doesn't want to talk ballpark money early doors then that is their choice.......personally I don't see how a 3 line e-mail from a Broker to a Vendor with any offer / ballpark offer (plus the Broker's opinion - even if that is "likely timewaster" or "offer is a joke") is exactly tiresome for a Broker.

Nonetheless I would happily go on a buying trip for several boats on spec - of course that may not work so well for the Vendor of the specific boat I was originally interested in - but that is his choice not mine, and his confidence may be well placed - with the boat worth the asking price and nothing better on the market - 2 slips down .
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:17   #40
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

I think TC is going about it in exactly the correct fashion- its HER money and she has a right to possibly spend that money in any way she feels fit. If this is the way she wants to negotiate a purchase, so be it. Just because it isn;t typically done this way doesn;t mean she is wrong. The broker stonewalling is within his rights as well, but such a hard line would cause me to walk. Too many great boats out there and too many good brokers to deal with a bad one.

I think sometimes sellers/brokers forget that it pays to be polite and flexible. TC's offer doesn't seem too crazy to me. I just don't get why the broker wouldn;t either say "My client has informed me not to bother him with offers below XYZ" if that is the case of "I will present your offer and get back with you". That's really not so hard.
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Old 02-09-2012, 14:44   #41
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

Terminalcitygrl, I don't know if this will help, but we inquired about a boat and the broker told us that a guy was traveling all the way from Australia to look at it, so she didn't want to give us any information until he had looked at it and perhaps, made an offer. The boat was in California. If you ask, perhaps the broker will wait 'till you come to look.

We are in the same situation in that boats we are interested in are far away. I'm sure most brokers are used to having folks fly in to look at boats. I do think it helps to have more than one to look at, though.

Good luck! The hunt is more than half the fun!
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Old 02-09-2012, 15:09   #42
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

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Originally Posted by angelfish2 View Post
Terminalcitygrl, I don't know if this will help, but we inquired about a boat and the broker told us that a guy was traveling all the way from Australia to look at it, so she didn't want to give us any information until he had looked at it and perhaps, made an offer. The boat was in California. If you ask, perhaps the broker will wait 'till you come to look.
Whilst I am happy as a Vendor to give a prospective buyer a fair shake of the stick when travelling a long distance - nonetheless I would have been very unhappy to hear that my broker had not sent you any details to help keep you "warm".

My bet is that the Vendor didn't hear about it.
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Old 03-09-2012, 01:09   #43
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

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I just don't get why the broker wouldn;t either say "My client has informed me not to bother him with offers below XYZ" if that is the case of "I will present your offer and get back with you". That's really not so hard.
I think you are forgetting:

a) the laziness factor.
b) that the concept of doing anything slightly different to wot grandad did is treated exactly the same (and is as welcome) as offering to drop a turd in their fridge

But nonetheless (talking numbers early on) is IMO a quick and easy way of screening out timewasting Brokers (and Vendors).
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Old 03-09-2012, 04:32   #44
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

You are best to move on when the price seems too high in today's market. There are many boats for sale, most at yesterday's prices, but keep on looking and widen your search. You'll end up finding a better deal.

We found our perfect boat in Ipswich, England while living in Massachusetts, USA after we stopped focusing on boats on the west coast of America.
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Old 03-09-2012, 09:10   #45
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

I thought that was perfectly correct. You establesh a price contingent on inspection, etc. Otherwise you might be traveling to see a lot of boats out of your price range.
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