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Old 31-08-2012, 20:32   #16
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What does "IMHE" stand for?
In my humble expirence

Similar to IMHO in my humble opinion.
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Old 31-08-2012, 20:42   #17
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

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Originally Posted by terminalcitygrl View Post
Yes. And I know. But it's far away and we really love it!!!

But yes. <sheepish>
TCGirl, you should really reconsider what you just said! You have fallen in love with a mail order bride (husband, whatever). The catalog said she was young, pretty, loved sex and owned a liquor store. The reality may well be that she is not so young any more (but was 20 years ago) has a face that would stop a clock, actually is a trans-sexual whose surgery wasn't all that successful, and doesn't actually own the liquor store but does owe it a lot of money.

What I am getting at is that brokerage listings are ALWAYS optimistic, and often are just plain deceitful (ask me how I know!). To make an offer sight unseen, no matter how far below apparent market value, is a fools mission. If the boat is so far away as to make viewing expensive, I'd shy away myself. By the time that you transport yourself on site and have a look, you have such a large fiscal and emotional investment in the boat that it is hard to make rational decisions even after viewing/surveying her.

So, please listen to what all of us are saying to you and look some more. You haven't told us what sort of boat your lust object is, but if a production boat, there will likely be another one somewhere closer.

FWIW, Ann and I searched for three years to find our current boat, and we think it was worth the wait. Of course, we were happily cruising in our previous boat during those years which helps ease the pain and increase patience!

Good luck with your search.

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Old 31-08-2012, 21:06   #18
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
TCGirl, you should really reconsider what you just said! You have fallen in love with a mail order bride (husband, whatever). The catalog said she was young, pretty, loved sex and owned a liquor store. The reality may well be that she is not so young any more (but was 20 years ago) has a face that would stop a clock, actually is a trans-sexual whose surgery wasn't all that successful, and doesn't actually own the liquor store but does owe it a lot of money.

What I am getting at is that brokerage listings are ALWAYS optimistic, and often are just plain deceitful (ask me how I know!). To make an offer sight unseen, no matter how far below apparent market value, is a fools mission. If the boat is so far away as to make viewing expensive, I'd shy away myself. By the time that you transport yourself on site and have a look, you have such a large fiscal and emotional investment in the boat that it is hard to make rational decisions even after viewing/surveying her.

So, please listen to what all of us are saying to you and look some more. You haven't told us what sort of boat your lust object is, but if a production boat, there will likely be another one somewhere closer.

FWIW, Ann and I searched for three years to find our current boat, and we think it was worth the wait. Of course, we were happily cruising in our previous boat during those years which helps ease the pain and increase patience!

Good luck with your search.

Jim
Jim, if it makes you feel any better I have spent some time talking to the OP about her prospective purchases. I believe she is going into this eyes open and knows what she's looking at. Caveat emptor as always, but the listings she's considering are all pretty high end for the size range. I don't think she'll allow herself to be screwed on a boat deal, doesn't seem like the type. If she has fallen in love with a boat from a distance, I'm sure it's a provisional sort of love and she will survey and sea trial carefully before purchasing.
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Old 01-09-2012, 00:47   #19
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

Thanks everyone for your comments and yes, minaret has been great at giving me some perspective on the boats we are interested in and about 10 others we could consider! ;-)

I totally hear your concerns too Jim and we are reluctant to offer at a distance but at the same time given our budget limitations and the small pool of boats that fit our criteria, almost everyone of them is on the east coast. We are being cautious, the offer stated subject to survey and seatrial. I know it's not the ideal way to buy a boat but I also know some other folks have come out okay with long distance purchases...

It's just the sales strategy that sucks in this case. I'm sure someone else will fall for it, we can't. My husband worked in sales years ago and knows the play very well. He calls it the BRICK model - take the standard sales price, double it and list the item at that price for a few months. Then put it on sale for 1/2 price! The buyer thinks they are getting a deal when really they are just paying the regular retail price. I dont think that is exactly what's going on in this case but it certainly has a bit of that feel.
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Old 01-09-2012, 02:17   #20
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

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Originally Posted by terminalcitygrl View Post
Yes. And I know. But it's far away and we really love it!!!

But yes. <sheepish>
I can see it now, next thread is How to get boat to BC in winter.

Feeling sheepish now, as bad as it seems, is far better than being pissed later after having purchased an unfound boat which is also far away.

Never, ever buy a thing without first being prepared to walk away.

Don't think of this as a boat purchase that didn't work out, think of it as leaving the door open to find your perfect-er boat.
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Old 01-09-2012, 03:17   #21
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

We have owned three boats. We made an offer on our second boat "Sight unseen" and contingent on a walk thru, seatrial and surverys. It basically let us walk away at anytime, but locked the boat until we could see it and make an informed decision.

This is common practice is the USA and any Broker not willing to do this is a fool, since many far away buyers will eventually purchase the vessel, unless they have represented something it is not.

As far as this boat... Take a deep breath and wait. Winter is approaching and thee season is ending. The worst possible time to sell a boat in cold weather is from mid October through the end of January. Consiquently, is is the best time to buy a boat. Owners are still paying slip and maintenance fees, which are eating into their profit margins. Sometimes owners need the money and after a several months get desperate. Sometimes a low ball offer will be excepted based on this.

My advise is keep looking for now and see what comes up... If you are still looking in late October, make a new offer and see what happens. If they still don't want to deal, well it is their loss.

My only other advise is what the other posters had said, "Don't fail in love until you know who your dating!"
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Old 01-09-2012, 03:39   #22
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We had recently been in the market cat we liked was 120k my broker ran comps and found them to be slightly lower. Even found what the owner had paid. I made a fair offer. His broker countered twice my max was 110. They countered to $117 then 115k me and my $$ moved on. I received a call two days later from the owner freaking out. He was very upset and wanted to know why it "fell thru" his broker never presented my second offer nor explained what the comps were ,, as they felt they could get maximum $$ out of me. Owner offered the vessel to me for 100. And would pay his brokers fees out of pocket. I still passed as we had a backup choice we actually liked as muchbfor less $$. He fired his broker.
Brokers are like surveyors . Some are really good and know their suff some are trying to make a buck , knw nothing ,and will screw anyone...
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Old 01-09-2012, 06:58   #23
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

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Originally Posted by terminalcitygrl View Post
Actually I may have misspoke. I think the words were that they "could not advise their client to accept such a low offer" -without actually saying whether or not the offer was in fact discussed with the seller. I guess my point was that 20% off doesn't seem unrealistic unless you are still comparing it to the dream original list price which seems really unfair.

I'm sad to let it go but have to. With the additional costs of transport and duty/ taxes, we were already stretching our budget.
Did you talk an offer or make one with a deposit,all offers are based upon personal inspection and survey sea trila or any other exception you wish to include,Money talks all brokers I,know get tired of Talk Offers.
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:33   #24
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

I think my communication was very clear. It was a cash offer subject to survey and sea trial. We would have no problem with getting a same day deposit to the broker once the offer was accepted and we would plan to hop a flight within 2 weeks to complete the sale.

And part of our homework prior to the offer was looking at costs to truck the boat home and pay taxes/ duty so we could minimize the possibility of financial surprises so no follow-up thread about how to transport the boat.

We have done our homework and aren't complete idiots and we were prepared to walk if the boat wasn't as advertised despite our being in love with it.
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Old 01-09-2012, 14:05   #25
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

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Originally Posted by terminalcitygrl View Post
So we fell in love with a boat from afar...
There's your problem, right there. Buying a boat is still fundamentally a business deal. Falling in love with a boat you haven't even seen yet is just ASKING to be taken to the cleaners.

Fall in love with the boat AFTER you buy it. Not before.
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Old 01-09-2012, 16:33   #26
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

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There's your problem, right there. Buying a boat is still fundamentally a business deal. Falling in love with a boat you haven't even seen yet is just ASKING to be taken to the cleaners.

Fall in love with the boat AFTER you buy it. Not before.
Oh give me a freakin' break. What part of "we're not total idiots" and "we're willing to walk away if it the boat wasn't as advertised" did you not understand?

Just because we love a boat doesn't mean we're going to overpay for it. We've done our homework, we know what we feel comfortable paying and we offered that. The broker thinks its too low because of a pie-in-the-sky initial list price. This thread was to post my frustration with this and see if others had run across similar problems, not to invite people to slam us for making an offer on a boat we hadn't seen in person because it's on the other side of the country.

We are looking at other boats, just looked at an original owner Alberg 30 and an Endurance 35 today and both were at rock bottom prices. They would be fine boats but surely aren't our preferred buy at this time. We know the market and if things don't work out with the boat we love at a price we think is fair then it's not meant to be our boat. We're okay with that.
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Old 01-09-2012, 16:42   #27
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

Further, I personally think it would be more foolish to pay for flights and hotel and to travel across country to see a boat without having some guarantee it would still be there when we arrived than to make a subject offer sight unseen but based on good research. But hey, to each their own.
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Old 01-09-2012, 17:42   #28
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

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Further, I personally think it would be more foolish to pay for flights and hotel and to travel across country to see a boat without having some guarantee it would still be there when we arrived than to make a subject offer sight unseen but based on good research. But hey, to each their own.

I think you're going about this right, and I did it just the same myself throughout my four year long epic search for the "perfect boat". Looking further afield dramatically increases the odds of finding a deal on a boat that really fits your needs, and it would be crazy to go see the boat without first insuring that the owner and broker are sane people willing to make a deal, and that the boat will not be sold out from under you before you come see it. If you did not do this you would waste a ton of money on airfare to see boats that might have totally unreasonable owners or several offers already that the broker conveniently didn't mention because it doesn't cost him anything for you to come and more offers on the table makes it easier for him. I was very careful about this stuff and still spent a lot of money traveling to see boats I didn't buy. In every case but one I got my deposit back promptly, and in the one case it was only a slight delay with profuse apologies. I did this many times, in seven different states and three different countries, before finding the perfect boat for me. I find having an offer in actually increases your bargaining power. They think they have you on the hook, but if you are experienced the reality is that you have them on the hook. Get a thorough survey from YOUR surveyor, be present at the survey and carefully go over every issue you may have with the surveyor and make sure it all goes on the survey. Then get some bids from the best (ie most expensive) boatyards in the area to fix any issues and come back to the bargaining table. You now hold all the power, they have already invested time and effort and want to see the deal go through. Bargain ruthlessly and make sure you get a good deal, it's a buyers market. Don't let them pretend it isn't. If you can get even 80% of the cost of the pro bids off the asking price, and then do much of the work yourself, you should come out on top.
Obviously you will spend some money traveling and surveying like this. I consider it the cost of finding the "right" boat, and then try to recoup those losses and more in bargaining for the boat when you find it.
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Old 01-09-2012, 18:05   #29
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

I will wade into the mess ....
I too made offers sight unseen and none were deemed acceptable by the sellers. Like terminalcitygrl, I was not about to spend several thousand dollars to fly out and look at a boat without some reasonable assurance that the boat would be there when I got there and that the boat would be in the price bracket that I was willing to pay. As it turned out, Valiants are well overpriced as far as I am concerned but apparently there are others that are willing to pay collector prices.
My offers were based on what I thought was a reasonable price given the economic situation in the world and given that the boats had been sitting for quite a bit of time. The price also reflected the photos and the broker write up because that is what I had to go on. If the condition of the boat was not as described then the offer would have been changed but at least I would have known if the seller was willing to come down from what I thought was very very optimistic pricing that did not reflect the realities of the economy (IMHO).
Thinking back, my offers were a bit lower than what I would have offered if I had seen the boat before hand but this was simply a bit of an insurance blanket to allow for fixing of some items that invariably pop up. If you look at the boat first you can be a bit sharper when you calculate the offer.

In any case, I did not buy long distance and saved myself a bucket full of money and time by going the route I did. I ended up buying a completely different boat (Catalina 36) with the understanding that this was a five year 'see how I like things' coastal cruiser instead of going straight off-shore at 3 times the price.

BTW, the first offer had a deposit, subsequent offers were written with a clause that the deposit would be forthcoming as soon as the offer was accepted. All offers were cash deals.
The local boat I bought had a deposit but the broker never cashed the cheque - it was a mutual trust kinda thing which I appreciated.
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Old 01-09-2012, 18:05   #30
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Re: Frustrated With Prospective Purchase!

You probably won't change your mind about what you want in your boat but the two main factors that jump out at me are that 1) You want a cream puff fibreglass boat for a bottom price and 2) You are stretching your budget to do so.

I'd love a cream puff myself, but they are few and far between, and always go for a premium price. I settled for a far less attractive boat that I could afford.

There's good condition and there's good condition boats. I put a new engine into Boracay, and it was expensive, but every time we race bad weather off an inhospitable coast or dig our way off a charted, marked sand bar I bless every penny that I spent.

We saw a couple of boats coming into port after some bad weather on our way up. None of them would have been considered pretty but they were recent model in top condition. The crew did not look happy but the boats looked great.

As far budget goes I have spent as little as possible on the boat. After our shake down cruise it's really nice to pop into a marina whenever we like, fill the fuel tanks whenever we like, shop till we drop at the local supermarkets (etc!) and to hire cars, take taxis and buses to our hearts content. Cruising is expensive and it's nice not to have to worry.

If there is a common thread to successful cruising yacht purchases it's that the owners have brought the best boat they could and have then spent almost as much again and a considerable amount of time going through the boat and getting it into the best possible condition.

Makes me think of the old song....

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