Fridge and watermaker on 27' mono?

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by Gene Neill

Okay, the Bimini vs. arch question has been answered, and the arch wins by default. The boom is too low, and the mainsheet is too far forward (or aft, take your pick) for having a Bimini at all, as far as I'm concerned.

So, arches. Just playing around here. This is pretty close to what a pair of 150-170 watt panels would look like, on a prefab "kit" arch (https://www.fishonsports.com/140.htm...ts&modal=false), positioned as far forward as possible. The height is approximate, but I'd like to be able to stand under it in the cockpit.


Thoughts?

I would move it aft a bit to give the main some space. My arch will have one panel on it - probably 300 - 330 watts, and the panel will be behind the backstay.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

The problem with these installations is they would be in the way of a self steering vane.

actually no they wouldn't be if installed like on my defender on the sides of the pushpit rails.
( the green hull boat)

[laika]

144W mounted on the radar pole. They are easy to strike and stow in a lazarette when needed. A great setup would be something like this mounted under a wind gen.

[mitiempo]

I am always amazed by those that install a solar panel with radar, wind gens, and other items above them causing shade.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

I am always amazed by those that install a solar panel with radar, wind gens, and other items above them causing shade.

that's part of my reasoning for a vertical separation and the ability to easily strike the wind genny . In summer months.

[Gene Neill]

Originally Posted by laika

That doesn't look bad to my eye. Would they be installed in such a way so as to be easy to strike if the winds picked up? Or would they just be bolted down strong enough to withstand a good blow?

Looks like you would lose the efficiencies that come with being able to tilt the panels, though with 300-350W onboard and a highly insulated fridge maybe that's not a big deal.

Have you searched for pics of what other owners have done?

Oh yes.

I'm all about tilting panels. Even if it's just one direction. I'm sure there's a way to make that happen.

Our line of thinking was, sturdy enough to withstand a good blow. I wouldn't want to have to wrestle those panels up and down every time the wind pipes up.

[Gene Neill]

For those who mentioned windgens, I'm listening. The boss, however, is skeptical:



"I hear they're noisy"
"What happens when there's no wind"
"It'll look all cluttered next to the vane"


I think I know the answers to all those, but (you're never gonna believe this) she doesn't always listen to me.

[Gene Neill]

Originally Posted by Don C L

As an owner of a boat a little larger than yours, I would say, if it were me, I'd prefer to mount panels on the rail that can fold up as needed for charging, and I'd look again at a dodger with panels and a wind generator. I would prefer not to have that windage up so high on such a small boat. Still, though I am encouraged by products and capacities I am seeing in terms of energy production, storage and demand, it may still be too much to ask of a small boat. You may have seen these but here are a couple of shots of folks who have adapted Vegas to long distance cruising. It is a lot to ask of a Vega.

Haha, yes, I have both of those pics saved. Those crazy Swedes in the second pic in particular. I think there were four of them in that boat (I saved their blog somewhere), crossing oceans. And carrying a ton of bricks in the stern, by the looks of it.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Gene Neill

Oh yes.

I'm all about tilting panels. Even if it's just one direction. I'm sure there's a way to make that happen.

Our line of thinking was, sturdy enough to withstand a good blow. I wouldn't want to have to wrestle those panels up and down every time the wind pipes up.

I sail mostly in winter here all of my installs have survived 50 plus knot winds and big steep waves . Never a problem

[laika]

A dedicated pole for solar is a great option. If doing it from scratch with an eye to the caribbean, and not wanting multiple poles on the stern, a wind gen with solar panels on pivots below it would be my choice.

In the tropics, our radar aloft will partially shade one of our four panels for a couple hours midday. The pole itself will also throw some shade when the boat lies in a N/S orientation and we don't shimmy the solar mounts about the base of the pole. But 90% of the time we're more or less bow east under anchor, and the panels catch most of the day's full sun unobstructed.

In the task of outfitting a (small) boat for cruising, it's no surprise that compromises are often made.

[Q Xopa]

Originally Posted by Buzzman

The notion of turning off the power to the compressor overnight is a good one *if reliant on solar to run compressor* - as it reduces overnight battery draw-down.

So for "marginal" and especially lead acid batteries, excess draw down is to be avoided. So although the fridge may, on start up in the morning, remain running for longer to draw down the fridge again, this is being done by 'free' Amps produced from the PV.

Theoretically, if the boat's interior is cool enough for the compressor not to need to turn on (ie: no need to leave it switched on) then it should be OK to leave it on, as it won't cycle. But reality is it probably will in the early hours of the morning.

So switching off the fridge overnight is ONLY worth doing if your battery system is marginal. And yes, the fridge should have an operational low voltage cut-out (from memory 10 or 11 VDC) on the Engel.

The 'drop in' fridege boxes are a useful addition to 12VDC fridges, but even better are the stand alone 'kits' some makers retail that are even more flexible in the shape of the compartment. Some have different shaped cooling plates - flat, rectangular etc - so that it's even easier to fit into a funny boat-shaped fridge.

Some kits come ready to 'plug and play' but have limited length to coolant lines from compressor to plate, others will be too long for your specific installation, so it's best to budget for requiring a tech to do the actual 'hook-up' as it will mean breaching the coolant and thus losing it to atmosphere which is a no-no, environmentally.

Apparently in the US you can purchase coolant and do it yourself, but elsewhere in the world it's more heavily regulated. In Oz you need a Certified Fridge Tech to do the gassing or connecting.

Another option worth considering is the eutectic 12VDC fridge plate. I know there is one company at least that makes a DIY version (not cheap) but the eutectic fluid chills more quickly and retains 'cool' for longer, and thus the compressor cycles less often.

So if contemplating (especially) using a generator to recharge batteries to keep fridge cold (as opposed to PV) then a compressor that cycles less often might mean less need to run the gennie.

We did test one eutectic fridge in the magazine tests, and I have to say the value was questionable. It did not seem to respond all that much better in terms of Amp draw, but the data charts/graphs - from my hazy 20-yr-old recollection, did show less cycling.

However, if I recall correctly, the fridge concerned did not have much additional insulation - other than the eutectic fluid in packs in the walls of the box. So a *properly* and well-insulated eutectic box may in fact outperform (in terms of Amp draw) a more conventional 12VDC fridge of the same capacity.

Don't quote me...

Yes this sounds along the same lines as the recent thread on 'refrigeration without battery' or (something similar) thread.

Could also do the old filling any spare fridge space with water bottles. This stores extra 'cooleth', or thermal mass to help make it through the night.

[john61ct]

Getting thermal mass in there and running 100% duty cycle during "free excess" period is great, long as you're not causing / increasing PSOC abuse on the battery bank as a result (marginal electric system).

And of course eutectic is the better way to do the above, like adding battery capacity,

get your system to the point where it **doesn't need** to run at all overnight, in order to keep temp below setpoint, is a great goal

but, again, switching off an evaporator fridge otherwise just **increases** total Ah used per day.

Letting the temp rise can also threaten food safety.

Downside with holding plates is they are pricey and you lose interior space.

[gmakhs]

If you make an arch is better to use aluminium and no inox , inox looks more shiny but aluminium will be lighter .

[gmakhs]

Way to many changes from the original design .

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by Don C L

As an owner of a boat a little larger than yours, I would say, if it were me, I'd prefer to mount panels on the rail that can fold up as needed for charging, and I'd look again at a dodger with panels and a wind generator. I would prefer not to have that windage up so high on such a small boat. Still, though I am encouraged by products and capacities I am seeing in terms of energy production, storage and demand, it may still be too much to ask of a small boat. You may have seen these but here are a couple of shots of folks who have adapted Vegas to long distance cruising. It is a lot to ask of a Vega.

Wow! These photos really put the size of the Vega in perspective! I'm wondering how 300w of solar will look (and fit!) on an arch. Maybe a smaller panel on a small arch (like Tarka from the Sailing Tarka youtube channel) and panels on the rails that can be swung up (but with that low freeboard I suspect they'll be in the water a lot).

Also, it is important to think about protection from the sun and rain in the cockpit. Maybe you can work something out where the panel provides shade over the helm. From experience, you'll spend most of your time in the cockpit in the tropics and full sun protection is fundamental (including some kind of side panel to block morning and afternoon sun).