Fridge and watermaker on 27' mono?

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Gene Neill

NOTE: there are no batteries and no electrical system on the boat at this time.

Then get out and cruise with the absolute minimum installed for survival.

Only add something to that once you have learned from at least a few months' experience you really can't live without it.

If your Admiral's wants and comfort are paramount, you may well need a bigger boat.

Replacing your GCs every few years will let you slack off on the getting to 100% regularly guideline, but still try, especially if **also** going below 50%.

In very hot conditions and cold setpoint, your guesstimate for the Engel may prove true. But likely under 25Ah when more moderate.

[Don C L]

For me, the math hasn't added up yet. Thinking about how much space and power is needed for a fridge, and then the space and power and fuel needed by a watermaker and the space on deck needed for the solar panels, on this 27 footer, ... I think less perishable food and more water jugs will seem more attractive, especially if you are island hopping.
on edit... ok, rethinking, if the engine is running, quite a bit, then I think it might work. I personally would be avoiding trying to add a generator and fuel for it (where would it fit?)... kinda starting to sound a bit Rube Goldberg...
Did you mention a budget for this? Did I miss that?

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by newhaul

gene since don forced me on this

Ok here goes . If you are dead set on a brand new watermaker I would recommend the venture 200. Its power to output ratio places it well ahead of the rest of the pack.
If going with a good used unit then the powersurvivor35/40 off eBay would be the better way.

Now as to refrigeration while an Engle is good. look into redoing the insulation in your icebox and installing a conversion unit. Yes it's quite a bit more up front but it will save you in space on the long tail as well as increase the resale value a bit.

Now as to your power. 225ah of gc2 will actually only give you about 100 to 125 daily usable ah and that's not enough to run a refer adequately you would do good to double that.
But if you are going from the ground up I would really look into lifepo4 batteries . a bit more on the upfront cost but on the back side many on here are looking at lifespans in excess of 10 years ( they don't have to be fully charged after use for longevity )

on my defender I have 200 watts rigid installed on the rails and 200 flex that can be set on deck as needed.

So I am curious, given that our boats are a bit bigger than the Albin, and given your panels (running the fridge) and you'll have an alternator on your engine, right?, running the watermaker, how much water will you be able to make?

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I’m, I hate to be negative, but I know how much room an Albin Vega has. Are you sure it’s all gonna fit? ( I mean all the other accoutrements of life as well)

No, I for one am not. Indeed after fitting solar we sold the Honda because I wanted the space in the cockpit locker for other stuff and certainly didn't want the weight on the side of the boat. This on a boat that is 4ft longer and a lot wider.

Living in NW Europe we don't need a WM, but if we did, I would really struggle to find a place without loosing valuable storage lockers for a Spectra sized WM, might be able to squeeze a Katadyn into the wet locker but anything bigger will be a problem.

For two people living full time on a Albin, then they are going to have to be ruthless with personal items that aren't used daily and the same goes for anything that adds weight. Look at the clear outs Adventures of Tarka had to do for his gf to move on board. Even some of the musical instruments had to go.

Be interesting to hear in a few months time what the final solution was.

Pete

[Don C L]

I have no refrigeration and no WM on mine and I am still full of stuff too. I am really struggling to imagine how all this will be shoe-horned in... along with all the other stuff needed. I concede I could be more organized in my use of space though. Got any diagrams or photos Gene?
And then there is the issue of weight and WHERE it is distributed on a small boat. Location is more critical on a small medium displacement boat as far as performance goes.

[hamburking]

IMHO, a big part of the enjoyment of a small sailboat (27) is fewer and simpler systems. As others have said, you can live without refrigeration. It will just make that ice cold drink so much better when you go ashore. The same for fresh water. You'll learn to use salt water for everything except drinking.

On my boats, all "small and simple" boats, I would invite other sailors in the anchorage to visit. "Come on over" I'd say. "We'll have some tepid water...its very good...I bottle it myself!" And later they would show up with some ice cold beers. Sometimes they would even bring one for me!

Remember, being on a boat is not like being in a house. Embrace the challenges. Luxury and comfort is something to strive for, but not to achieve.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Don C L

So I am curious, given that our boats are a bit bigger than the Albin, and given your panels (running the fridge) and you'll have an alternator on your engine, right?, running the watermaker, how much water will you be able to make?

Don no alternator just the 400 watts solar. I'm also adding 400 in wind. To be sure of power without running the main engine ( 65 amp alternator available)
there are a couple pictures of the solar panels on my profile.
As to refrigeration personally I am going with the technautics system to be able to take full advantage of solar with a mere 100ah of Lfp.
I have my powersurvivor35 mounted on the bulkhead in the head space. 1.5 gph at 4.5 amps draw. I have a 35 gallon tank and that lasts me about 2 weeks till empty so running the watermaker for 3 hours 2 times a week will be plenty to cover my usages and not need to pickle it.

[Quadrille in JB]

We had both watermaker and isotherm fridge/freezer on our last boat, a Watkins 27.
The solar panel was a Sunpower 360w with a VictronConnect 100/30 controller charging 6-105ah Penn State AGMs. Watermaker was a Powersurvivor 35. We ran the fridge 24 hrs and the PS 35 during the day. We had ice, cold beer, and 20 gpd of great water for showers, etc.
Great power setup but the battery bank never got to 100% SOC, even though we had beautiful clear sunny days in the Abacos.
You can do it, but you’ll need several PV panels and more batteries.
Our new 34’ boat has 2-Sunpower 360 w panels and 8-105 ah AGMs with a SeawaterPro watermaker, an isotherm fridge, and a freezer. We never get below 93% SOC.
Good luck. It’s great to be independent of any marinas.

[ArmyDaveNY]

There are some great comments here. One or two suggested that you avoid the fridge. You do have options here. I have a few 27 foot boats and as mentioned by others, room is an issue. If you fridge is not large enough or you decide to hold off on the fridge, there are a lot of things you can do that will mitigate the need for a fridge. Good insulation is important whether you have an ice box or a fridge.



There are a number of things that most think need refrigeration but actually don't. Eggs for example will last some time without it. If you rub Vaseline or other petroleum jelly on them they will last upwards of six weeks. Fruits will last longer if you keep certain fruits segregated. Depending upon how long between ports your trip is, frozen foods will act like ice and greatly extend the cooling effect in an ice box.


There are some good books that talk about how to get along without a fridge. I recall the Pardey's had a book on sailing on a budget and if I recall correctly they talk about making do with an ice box in lieu of a fridge. Don Street also talks about this, although he has a chapter on fridges for those who want one.


For power, you may wish to consider a wind generator in addition to the solar panels. Many will provide over 30 Amps at peak power. It also provides power when the sun is down or it's cloudy, assuming there is sufficient wind. There are a good variety of wind generators so shop around. Having wind and solar gives a greater chance of power when one or the other isn't cooperating and allows for more power throughout the twenty four hour day.



Good luck with whatever you decide.

[elandra65]

With regard watermaker. I am surprised no one has mentioned running it straight off the engine. I have had several WMs and this is the best system by far. No electrical issues either. Mine is an Echotec. Very reliable.

Andrew

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by elandra65

With regard watermaker. I am surprised no one has mentioned running it straight off the engine. I have had several WMs and this is the best system by far. No electrical issues either. Mine is an Echotec. Very reliable.

Andrew

not mentioned likely due to the op stating he was looking at either the spectra venture 150 or the powersurvivor 40e. ( both are 12 volt driven units)

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by Gene Neill

Oh Lord ... here we go. Sure you don't want to know about my anchor instead??


I'm on the fence between a Powersurvivor 40E and a Ventura 150. I'll leave it that. ; )

We need to talk.

[Gene Neill]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I hate to be negative, but I know how much room an Albin Vega has. Are you sure it’s all gonna fit? ( I mean all the other accoutrements of life as well)

You're not being negative at all, you are raising a very important question!

It will fit. I have a plan.

Now, that plan was for a PS40E. I cannot yet speak to any other WM, although almost any model would be smaller and lighter than the Jerry jugs it replaces. As for the generator, I would not purchase that item until after moving on board and seeing firsthand how the power consumption goes.

We routinely cruise the western gulf of Mexico for a week at a time on our Catalina 22, without any resupply, and never feel cramped or lacking anything. There is still a lot of unused space on board, although not much more weight capacity, I feel. When it comes to "stuff", we are minimalists by nature. 27' LOA feels like a mega yacht to us.

You asked about budget. Honestly, there is not one. It's gonna cost what it's gonna cost. We had hoped to cut the lines next fall, but it may turn out to be sometime in 2021. More logistically than financially. I have precious little spare time for all the work that needs to be done.

[Gene Neill]

Originally Posted by Tellie

We need to talk.

Oh, we will. Trust me! LOL

[rsn48]

Efoy with Fire Fly batteries.