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Old 03-11-2012, 18:22   #211
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Re: Frankenstorm!

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
Once Sandy had gone "extra-tropical," meteorologists repeatedly urged people to ignore the fact that she was no longer a "hurricane," because they knew the storm was going to grow larger and more dangerous.
.

Yea, and then they started calling it a SUPERSTORM!

WTF would they call it if it was same place/same time but a Cat4?

They would have to make up a new word.........and the clowns in the windbreakers with the microphones would have to be replaced.
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Old 03-11-2012, 18:38   #212
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Re: Frankenstorm!

There were boats on the beach in Northport... and at least one power boat sank. I dodged the bullet. Others didn't.
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Old 03-11-2012, 18:48   #213
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Re: Frankenstorm!

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Yea, and then they started calling it a SUPERSTORM!

WTF would they call it if it was same place/same time but a Cat4?

They would have to make up a new word.........and the clowns in the windbreakers with the microphones would have to be replaced.
No, they wouldn't call it a Cat 4. For hurricanes, the only measure of a storm for category is windspeed.

Saffir–Simpson hurricane scale Category Wind speeds Five ≥70 m/s, ≥137 kts
≥157 mph, ≥252 km/h Four 58–70 m/s, 113–136 kts,
130–156 mph, 209–251 km/h Three 50–58 m/s, 96–112 kts
111–129 mph, 178–208 km/h Two 43–49 m/s, 83–95 kts
96–110 mph, 154–177 km/h One 33–42 m/s, 64–82 kts
74–95 mph, 119–153 km/h Additional classifications Tropical
storm 18–32 m/s, 35–63 kts
39–73 mph, 63–118 km/h Tropical
depression <17 m/s, <34 kts,
<38 mph, <62 km/h
Saffir

Size doesn't count on this scale. Charley was a small storm with Cat-4 winds.

Tornadoes are rated after the fact based on the damage they do. If they did that with hurricanes, and if Sandy had remained a hurricane, she would have been off that chart. But for wind speed, she would have only been a Cat-1. Those are sustained winds on that chart, not gusts. I don't know anything about how they chose the dividing lines.
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Old 03-11-2012, 19:04   #214
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NWS was very good about warning that cat 1 was only about windspeed. I think storms should have a better modern value of force. Cold air, duration, direction, combining conditions have substantial effect. Registering hurricanes by wind speed is past it's useful life. A impact rating would be much better. You could give a cat 1 hurricane with a storm force of 7 on a scale of 1 to 10. I am very impressed with new forecasting. But this archaic method of evaluating a storm needs updating.
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Old 03-11-2012, 20:58   #215
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Re: Frankenstorm!

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NWS was very good about warning that cat 1 was only about windspeed. I think storms should have a better modern value of force. Cold air, duration, direction, combining conditions have substantial effect. Registering hurricanes by wind speed is past it's useful life. A impact rating would be much better. You could give a cat 1 hurricane with a storm force of 7 on a scale of 1 to 10. I am very impressed with new forecasting. But this archaic method of evaluating a storm needs updating.

I completely agree with you. One of the devastating traits of this storm was that it kept piling up the water. I've heard two numbers for the storm surge at Battery Park (tip of Manhattan) -- 13' and 14'. Either one is extraordinary; that wasn't anywhere near the center of the storm. But the storm was so big it could push the water up, and up, and up, with nowhere for the water to go. In addition, the air pressure was extraordinarily low compared to the windspeed.

You're right; it's archaic. It doesn't line up at all with the remarkable ability to forecast.
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:40   #216
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Just enjoyed your blogs Mike. I did not think you could still get online with all the carnage that is going on around you "according to the news" Yes, according to what I was reading Mobs were living on garbage and attacking anyone with fuel. People were defecating in their hallways and enraged that the red cross was not giving them everything they needed.
I'm glad that most of that is hype, and the normal prepared person is getting by. BTW- your boat seemed to do well-much better than the ones on the dock.
During the Omaha flood of 52, the Red Cross was selling coffee for a dime a cup while the Salvation Army was giving coffee away, so the story was related by my mother. She never forgot that over the years.
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Old 04-11-2012, 05:28   #217
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Re: Frankenstorm!

I'm hearing whispers of another storm heading our way, does anyone know anything about this?
Atol...Mr Weatherman?
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Old 04-11-2012, 05:35   #218
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Re: Frankenstorm!

cold front coming to mid atlantic states and new england. is winter. stay warm.


btw, raku--sandy was still a hurrycame after it merged with first storm and then hit new jersey.
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:10   #219
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Re: Frankenstorm!

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Originally Posted by Deck Scrubber View Post
I'm hearing whispers of another storm heading our way, does anyone know anything about this?
Atol...Mr Weatherman?
the tropical atlantic is clear of any nasty stuff at the moment!

looking at your terrestrial weather there is a cold front approaching from the west,bringing colder weather down from the arctic in the next few days!

time to get those long-johns out,snow shoes and stoke up the wood burner!

minus 4c on tuesday!!!!!

http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weath...R=0&NOREGION=1
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:01   #220
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Re: Frankenstorm!

Thanks Alex...x
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:53   #221
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Re: Frankenstorm!

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cold front coming to mid atlantic states and new england. is winter. stay warm.


btw, raku--sandy was still a hurrycame after it merged with first storm and then hit new jersey.

We're really splitting hairs here, Zee:

"
WASHINGTON (AP) — The storm called Sandy messily morphed from hurricane into hybrid storm, losing the hurricane part of its name, but not the weather mayhem surrounding it.
The National Hurricane Center officially pronounced the storm "post-tropical" Monday evening, as the center of Sandy perched 20 miles south of Atlantic City, knocking at the coast's door. The change is part of a transition into a more diffuse storm that is bigger and sloppier, even as its force weakened."

Read more: Sandy: Losing tropical nature, but gaining girth - seattlepi.com

It's not like flipping a switch. The changes were taking place before the storm hit land, and they were important differences. The entire area would have been far better off with a true hurricane. The storm had already spread out even more (it was already a large surface-area storm) as it started interacting with those other weather systems. Weather forecasters knew all this was going to happen for three days. It became a massive vicious storm whose winds weren't its most important feature any more.

Do we really have to bicker about this?

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Old 04-11-2012, 07:59   #222
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Re: Frankenstorm!

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Originally Posted by Deck Scrubber View Post
I'm hearing whispers of another storm heading our way, does anyone know anything about this?
Atol...Mr Weatherman?

This one is a more standard Nor'easter. They weren't that unusual when I lived in New Jersey. My mom always made sure we had candles and such in case the power went out. Sometimes we got snow and sometimes we didn't. In one stupendous storm, we went into a state park in the New Jersey pine barrens for Thanksgiving with another family. It was a dirt road for miles ... and then we got dumped with two feet of snow the night after Thanksgiving. Someone, I suppose the National Guard, actually airlifted food in to the park using a helicopter -- I'd never seen one in person before. The cabin next to us burned to the ground and all the other people there took those people in (thank goodness no one was hurt) so they had a roof over their heads). After that the four adults in our group took turns keeping watch. The fire had been caused by a dirty chimney and there was no reason to think our cabin was any safer. Monday afternoon road plows finally reached us, and we were able to go home.

I hope the media doesn't over-hype this, although any storm will multiply the misery. I hope they give you accurate information.
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:14   #223
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Re: Frankenstorm!

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
No, they wouldn't call it a Cat 4. For hurricanes, the only measure of a storm for category is windspeed.

Saffir–Simpson hurricane scale Category Wind speeds Five ≥70 m/s, ≥137 kts
≥157 mph, ≥252 km/h Four 58–70 m/s, 113–136 kts,
130–156 mph, 209–251 km/h Three 50–58 m/s, 96–112 kts
111–129 mph, 178–208 km/h Two 43–49 m/s, 83–95 kts
96–110 mph, 154–177 km/h One 33–42 m/s, 64–82 kts
74–95 mph, 119–153 km/h Additional classifications Tropical
storm 18–32 m/s, 35–63 kts
39–73 mph, 63–118 km/h Tropical
depression <17 m/s, <34 kts,
<38 mph, <62 km/h
Saffir

Size doesn't count on this scale. Charley was a small storm with Cat-4 winds.

Tornadoes are rated after the fact based on the damage they do. If they did that with hurricanes, and if Sandy had remained a hurricane, she would have been off that chart. But for wind speed, she would have only been a Cat-1. Those are sustained winds on that chart, not gusts. I don't know anything about how they chose the dividing lines.
I didn't say it was a cat 4. Like you are always telling people - go back and read what I said! It was a comment on hype OK?

IF they rated hurricanes like tornadoes and Sandy went ashore with little population density then it would be graded as a lesser storm? Now that would be silly wouldn't it?
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:19   #224
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Re: Frankenstorm!

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
We're really splitting hairs here, Zee:

"
WASHINGTON (AP) — The storm called Sandy messily morphed from hurricane into hybrid storm, losing the hurricane part of its name, but not the weather mayhem surrounding it.
The National Hurricane Center officially pronounced the storm "post-tropical" Monday evening, as the center of Sandy perched 20 miles south of Atlantic City, knocking at the coast's door. The change is part of a transition into a more diffuse storm that is bigger and sloppier, even as its force weakened."


It's not like flipping a switch. The changes were taking place before the storm hit land, and they were important differences. The entire area would have been far better off with a true hurricane. The storm had already spread out even more (it was already a large surface-area storm) as it started interacting with those other weather systems. Weather forecasters knew all this was going to happen for three days. It became a massive vicious storm whose winds weren't its most important feature any more.

Do we really have to bicker about this?
Key words.
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:21   #225
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Re: Frankenstorm!

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I didn't say it was a cat 4. Like you are always telling people - go back and read what I said! It was a comment on hype OK?

IF they rated hurricanes like tornadoes and Sandy went ashore with little population density then it would be graded as a lesser storm? Now that would be silly wouldn't it?

I didn't say you said it was a Cat 4. I said they wouldn't have called it a Cat 4, and that led to what I found an interesting discussion about how categorizing of hurricanes hasn't kept up with science of metoerology. My comments were about the limits of the current classification system, and I thought that's what you might be getting at. In fact someone else went in that direction as well.

I don't want to bicker with you.
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