Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

[SaltyMonkey]

Originally Posted by Horror Hotel

Why would it need to be closed down ? We're chatting on a Internet forum and as long as no ones screaming about politics it's a go .

If you feel like your done with what you have to offer, than by all means bow out now. No reason for us to close up shop, the nets open 24-7. I am enjoying what most of the posters have to say.

Start a new thread. This was supposed to be one of support, not posturing tom foolery.

[Delancey]

I am joyful that for you the "right' way of going cruising means taking bubble baths while on passage and agree that there is nothing ostentatious about using fresh water to wash down the cockpit. Who could argue that the "right" way of going cruising means having more electricity and water than you know what to do with.

I also agree that I don't know you, but I am learning more about you with every post.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey

If it was my kid, and I had a wife and daughter that were going to take care of the medical side, I would not have given it a thought. I would have scuttled and been there with them in support.

I guess most cruisers according to your theory are nothing but selfish AH's who don't stand up. You know, after reading some of these posts, you're right.

Not so much. Most of the experienced cruisers I know, as opposed to inexperienced marina live aboards, are used to making rational choices that have some practical merit. They might choose to extend a difficult passage to avoid a weather system. They might stop making progress towards their destination altogether by heaving to for a few days rather than making everyone uncomfortable by carrying on. They also might, for example, turn around if a crew member gets sick rather than continuing into the blue for a few more days hoping things work out. They might even carry antibiotics to deal with a known issue with one of the crew, just in case. And if all that fails, they might weigh the value of emotional support for a spouse vs. making the families life harder financially by sinking their home and their possessions. I can't judge the decision making process, but it seems legitimate to consider the options, should someone else find themselves in the same situation.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Delfin

Which part of that required the captain's presence? If none is the correct answer, the choice to abandon a sound vessel was just that - a choice. I'm not criticizing the choice although I doubt it is one 90% of cruisers would make unless the boat was completely disabled, which this one apparently wasn't. But it was a choice and if it means anything it has to mean that at that point in time, getting off the boat seemed like a better option to Eric than staying on it. I'll be interested in hearing the why of that choice from the only person who can tell us - Eric, if he chooses to.

In the meantime, and even if some don't want to hear about it, there is value to newbie cruisers in learning from those with experience on how to avoid finding yourself in the Kaufman's predicament, and understanding what the Kaufman's had to say about their voyage before it ended as it did is a good source of information. Which is why I remain baffled that when Charles Weber quotes those very words for insight he is accused of being a troll.

When Donald Crowhurst jumped off his ship clutching his clock in the middle of the Atlantic if he had been a regular on CF perhaps he would have enjoyed the same consideration and prickly defense from other forumines, what with him being such a careful mariner and all. But it was reading his diaries found on the ship that showed that he had gone completely insane. We're looking for the black box of MH 379 for the same reason - the words of the participants will tell us a lot about why what happened happened. Since the Kaufmans have removed at least some of their blogs, I guess we'll have to wait to hear from them, if we do, which I hope so.

I see you live by your quote at the bottom of your post, "Before you criticize a man, you should walk a mile in his shoes. Then when you do criticize him, you're a mile away. And you have his shoes". . You probably live by WC. Fields quote...Never give a sucker an even break.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by Delancey

I am joyful that for you the "right' way of going cruising means taking bubble baths while on passage and agree that there is nothing ostentatious about using fresh water to wash down the cockpit. Who could argue that the "right" way of going cruising means having more electricity and water than you know what to do with.

I also agree that I don't know you, but I am learning more about you with every post.

I guess Jedi was right. Jealousy is the most obvious explanation.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

I see you live by your quote at the bottom of your post, "Before you criticize a man, you should walk a mile in his shoes. Then when you do criticize him, you're a mile away. And you have his shoes". . You probably live by WC. Fields quote...Never give a sucker an even break.

So you don't feel it worthwhile understanding why things end up with a sunken vessel? Do you think others contemplating this lifestyle would feel the same? Put another way, if another cruiser has a child with salmonella in a Mexican port, do you reckon that if they read this thread that they too will strike offshore the minute their doctor says "all clear" without asking what the likelihood of recurrence is, or could the bacteria have been contacted on board resulting in reinfection?

And I think I give the wrong impression with my signature, so I've changed it to one more appropriate. Thank you.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Delfin

So you don't feel it worthwhile understanding why things end up with a sunken vessel? Do you think others contemplating this lifestyle would feel the same? Put another way, if another cruiser has a child with salmonella in a Mexican port, do you reckon that if they read this thread that they too will strike offshore the minute their doctor says "all clear" without asking what the likelihood of recurrence is, or could the bacteria have been contacted on board resulting in reinfection?

And I think I give the wrong impression with my signature, so I've changed it to one more appropriate. Thank you.

Sorry...I'm not getting involved with your usual illogical banter. We did that once before with an epoxy issue... remember?... "End transmission".
You can use your fuzzy logic all you want. You do not have all the facts. Until you do, you're only speculating.

[Richard_W]

Originally Posted by Delfin

And I think I give the wrong impression with my signature, so I've changed it to one more appropriate. Thank you.

It's called prejudgement, and your "new and improved" signature is prejudicial ... you just discredited yourself, and your opinion ...

[SaltyMonkey]

Originally Posted by Delfin

Not so much. Most of the experienced cruisers I know, as opposed to inexperienced marina live aboards, are used to making rational choices that have some practical merit. They might choose to extend a difficult passage to avoid a weather system. They might stop making progress towards their destination altogether by heaving to for a few days rather than making everyone uncomfortable by carrying on. They also might, for example, turn around if a crew member gets sick rather than continuing into the blue for a few more days hoping things work out. They might even carry antibiotics to deal with a known issue with one of the crew, just in case. And if all that fails, they might weigh the value of emotional support for a spouse vs. making the families life harder financially by sinking their home and their possessions. I can't judge the decision making process (SM you just did), but it seems legitimate to consider the options, should someone else find themselves in the same situation.

And they might have endless funds to build a tank, like your stinkpot, and cruise no further than an Island in Washington State, taking pictures of elderly woman with dogs, and sit around on a thread all day pontificating endless second guesses as if all risks can be mitigated and put into a paper bag for future reference.

You're a walking fantasy, man.

Most experienced cruisers I know have recognized there are limits to preparation and accept those risks, and move on. When they go into the field, they go light.

[s/v Beth]

If this thread was about me and my disaster, it would be interesting only to see who has my back and who would rather just blather. I think I would lurk too. Any academic worth was gone about 500 posts ago. If Eric had anything to say, he would of by now.
That is the ultimate irony:
We think our opinions are so important that we spend untold hours posting...
And the guy that really has the facts finds this thread not ready to share them!
Just notify me when Eric decides to talk, otherwise this thread is about nothing.

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

It's been an interesting read!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Your getting a rep for the creation of the longest threads on CF, you and LiFePO4 batteries for the house bank. lol

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

If this thread was about me and my disaster, it would be interesting only to see who has my back and who would rather just blather. I think I would lurk too. Any academic worth was gone about 500 posts ago. If Eric had anything to say, he would of by now.
That is the ultimate irony:
We think our opinions are so important that we spend untold hours posting...
And the guy that really has the facts finds this thread not ready to share them!
Just notify me when Eric decides to talk, otherwise this thread is about nothing.

Ya gotta luv da Newt!

[Ocean Girl]

Do we know what the baby had? Did I miss something?

The folks who think they would of acted differently to this situation consider adding a few things to your conjectures

*The baby had a rash, this does not usually indicate food poisoning unless it is a reaction like Reiters syndrome ( unusual for female infants but not inconceivable)

*Patients can can allergic relation to antibiotics weeks or more after taking the drug. If baby was having a reaction to medication she was in a life threatening situation.

*rescuers said there was a strong possibility baby would become deathly ill had they not intervened.

*If Eric stayed with boat, he would not see his sick daughter for three weeks or more.

* The biggest act of seamanship is to scuttle your vessel before abandoning it, so that it can in no way harm another vessel.

There will be lots of lessons learned from this experience. Not necessarily because Eric and Charlotte did anything wrong, I'm sure they made mistakes, no one is perfect, but because of the experience itself.

Hope that made sense. I've tried to refrain from posting because I'm recovering from a medical procedure and a bit foggy brained, but some posts just are too much for me to handle.

Hugs to baby And family,
Erika

[sparrowhawk1]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

It's been an interesting read!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Hey Eric glad you and your family are safe.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Ocean Girl

Do we know what the baby had? Did I miss something?

The folks who think they would of acted differently to this situation consider adding a few things to your conjectures

*The baby had a rash, this does not usually indicate food poisoning unless it is a reaction like Reiters syndrome ( unusual for female infants but not inconceivable)

*Patients can can allergic relation to antibiotics weeks or more after taking the drug. If baby was having a reaction to medication she was in a life threatening situation.

*rescuers said there was a strong possibility baby would become deathly ill had they not intervened.

*If Eric stayed with boat, he would not see his sick daughter for three weeks or more.

* The biggest act of seamanship is to scuttle your vessel before abandoning it, so that it can in no way harm another vessel.

There will be lots of lessons learned from this experience. Not necessarily because Eric and Charlotte did anything wrong, I'm sure they made mistakes, no one is perfect, but because of the experience itself.

Hope that made sense. I've tried to refrain from posting because I'm recovering from a medical procedure and a bit foggy brained, but some posts just are too much for me to handle.

Hugs to baby And family,
Erika

Get well soon!