Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

[Prairie Chicken]

Originally Posted by ty.gregory

When Eric is good and ready to tell his story, I promise he will be honest and communicate clearly. This is the man we have been reading for a long time. I think we know enough to trust him. He will tell every mistake he made, and what he did right, and what he tells us will probably end up saving lives.
To paraphrase MarkJ, let's cut to the chase-- what the **** happened?

My suspicion is it may be a long time before Eric or Charlotte can communicate openly except in person to those close to them. I'm not sure if I saw a comment from a reliable source indicating they would obtain the services of a media consultant, or just thought that up on my own. Either way, IF that is the case, I'd imagine all of their public comms would be censored/edited by said consultant for some time.

I hope to hear their story too, but am prepared to wait. In the mean time, I think 129th gave us a pretty good insight.

[CatInHand]

Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond

That's a bit harsh.
There are actually a lot of members here worthy of respect. A lot of them only post occasionally, but they have wisdom and experience when they do.
I've dipped into this pool many times and almost every time I've had great information, thoughts and experience to draw on. I've also had some idiots but you soon work out who is worth listening to.

Atoll in particular is an old pal and I've emailed him from way off shore if I've needed input or info I can't get without the internet. He is worth every beer I've ever bought him
Come to think of it, I probably owe him a few more by now

Vic

I never said there weren't others, for Pete's sake. Way to take a positive bit of affirmation for Eric, on Eric's thread, and make it into me saying something negative.

That's it. You're off the respect list.

[sparrowhawk1]

Sorry I haven't read all the threads on this post as usual the drifts are all over the place. I don't know Eric or his family but what I've read leads me to believe that he's fairly competent and his boat was sea worthy. There's a clip from CNN on YouTube and the spin that CNN puts on the story makes me sick. Let's send our young people to unecessary Wars to get their limbs blown off or worse but heaven forbid a family sails a boat on the ocean.

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by CatInHand

I never said there weren't others, for Pete's sake. Way to take a positive bit of affirmation for Eric, on Eric's thread, and make it into me saying something negative.

That's it. You're off the respect list.

Meeeeeeeooooow. You're a deep draft boat in shallow water here Captain. If I am not off the list already, please scratch me now.

Thank you.

It's just amazing what ya read on the internet.

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey

Yes that video puts a lot of these Armchair Sailors who HAVE boats to shame. Answers a lot of Q's/

God bless the USA.

I was reflecting this morning on having watched the air rescue crew's news conference last night and it occurred to me that there was some code-speak in there, the significance of which some people may have missed.

At one point one of the commanders responds to a question regarding the condition and capability of the crew and the commander says something to the effect of "I've got Superman standing behind me and if he says Eric is cool than that's all I need to know"

Which translates into something like "I have an amazing creatively and intellectually talented super-human who eats grenades and craps bullets, with very advanced training as a life-saving medical technician and a willingness to jump out of an airplane with an automatic rifle strapped to his back into a combat zone to save lives at total risk to his own who is standing behind me and if he tells me that his assessment of Eric is that Eric had his ****-squared away than that is all you need you need to know."

I have been privileged in my life to meet a couple guys of a similar caliber as these PJ's and could hardly imagine a firmer endorsement. It's been a rare occasion when I have found myself actually in awe of another person, but these types of guys do it to me every time.

Every dark cloud has a silver lining and I would like to imagine that if there was even only one positive outcome, it's that Eric got to meet these guys and that some potentially lasting friendships developed as a result.

Do the math on that one, six adults and two children on a Hans Christian 36 a thousand miles offshore for a couple days? In my experience you learn a lot about someone when you spend a couple days on a small boat together, it's unavoidable.

I would also like to think that the respect is a two-way street. It takes a lot of verve and tenacity to take babes across an ocean and I would like to think the PJ's would appreciate these qualities in both Eric and Charlotte.

When I look at the photo of them all standing together, their body language, looks to me like they all got along just fine on that boat together.

[Delancey]

I posted this elsewhere on a different thread but figure it was worth posting here as well as it relates to the news conference-

You know people with hang-ups about the taxes thing and the cost of the rescue really kill me.

The rescuers are there to provide a combat support service. If a fighter or bomber crashes in the ocean, they want their expensive pilot back and they sure as hell want to know what happened to the likely more expensive aircraft that was lost.

So if people don't like it that their taxes go to rescue civilians when the SAR services aren't chasing down lost servicemen, they should express their opinions to their elected officials and direct them to reduce defense budgets. In the meantime it's good practice.

One thing that I thought was of particular interest when watching the rescue crew's press conference was that the crew expressed how deeply rewarding it was for them to rescue actual Americans for a change.

Sounds like that particular air rescue wing from California covers all the way down to the equator and as far west as Hawaii.

In their own words, while they mostly save merchant mariners and fisherman of all nations, they RARELY ever have occasion to rescue people from the good old US of A.

How do you think the tax weenies would feel knowing that their tax dollars by and large are being spent to rescue citizens of our pacific rim neighbors who are busy robbing the oceans off our shores blind of their resources?

I believe Atoll had expressed concern about Taiwanese long liners in the area stripping Rebel Heart before it could be recovered. When those same long liners have troubles off our shore do you think they call the Taiwanese Air Force to save them? Ha

[CatInHand]

Originally Posted by Delancey

I posted this elsewhere on a different thread but figure it was worth posting here as well as it relates to the news conference-

You know people with hang-ups about the taxes thing and the cost of the rescue really kill me.

The rescuers are there to provide a combat support service. If a fighter or bomber crashes in the ocean, they want their expensive pilot back and they sure as hell want to know what happened to the likely more expensive aircraft that was lost.

It's also the case that all the practice in the world can't prepare you for the unexpected things that happen in real life. One thing that came out of the 9/11 disaster is that hospital-hospital communication was severely limited. Without multiple phone calls/radio contact, rescuers could not know which hospital was still prepared to take victims/patients. Now, at least in Seattle, there is a real time system set up and within seconds any hospital within the city knows which other hospitals have space/personnel/beds available for a patient.

No one had ever thought to predict the need to find hundreds of beds for patients until it happened.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

I have not seen any information that suggests that the proximate cause of the rescue and the loss of Rebel Heart was anything other than the daughter got sick. While RH may have been having some mechanical difficulties I have not seen anything that said she could not have continued under sail if the daughter had not gotten sick. Numerous people have pointed out that this was entirely unpredictable. I'm going to point out something that may be taken as blaming Eric and Charlotte, but it is not meant in that manner, but rather as a lesson to be learned. Some have pointed out that almost all incidents have a chain of events that lead up to the ultimate event. I'm going to venture that this was also true in this case. The initiating cause was the baby's first infection with salmonella. The ultimate cause, it would appear, is that they took some quack's word that she was ready to travel. The baby's relapse was entirely predictable. Charlotte stated that they were both diagnosed with Salmonella on March 11. If they got the standard course of treatment, a week of antibiotics, they would have finished those about the 18th or so of March. A ten minute check of medical sites on the internet shows that 15 to 20% of infants relapse after treatment. The relapse usually occurs one to three weeks after the initial treatment ends. It would seem that the baby's relapse occurred pretty much in the middle of that time span. The mistake that Eric and Charlotte made was trusting the doctor's word instead of educating themselves about the problem. I am giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming that they did not go to sea knowing their baby had up to a 20% possibility of a relapse. The other thing to remember about relapses is that the relapse bug survived the initial antibiotic treatment which implies that it and its descendents are resistant to the original antibiotic and will require a different antibiotic for treatment.

The lesson to be learned here is that Doctors are not always a source for complete medical information. I look at doctors as medical advisors. If what they say doesn't make sense, check it out yourself or get a second opinion. Above all get as much information as you can about any diagnosis. This is especially true if you are going to be away from access to medical care for any length of time. With huge amounts of information available from reputable medical sources about any ailment being available on the internet there’s really not many excuses for not educating yourself.

I am very happy that everyone got home safe and sound, and sorry for the loss of RH. Sincerely hope they get a chance to try again if that is their wish.

Before a bunch of you start bashing my armchair opinions, I am in fact out there doing it. I have been full time cruising for almost three years. Actually cruising most time and repairing boats too much. The one thing I would really like to have on my boat is a comfortable armchair.

The other issue is determining where the child picked up the bug in the first place. Being one year old, the source is probably on board, so unless the environment was wiped down completely with bleach solution, the child could easily get reinfected even if she didn't relapse. My experience with one year olds is that if you are looking for the toilet plunger, the kid probably has it in their mouth.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Delfin

The other issue is determining where the child picked up the bug in the first place. Being one year old, the source is probably on board, so unless the environment was wiped down completely with bleach solution, the child could easily get reinfected even if she didn't relapse.

Good point.

Whats our forum Dr say about that? Or does salmonella die after a few days on a bench/floor?

I thought the relapse (if a relapse) may have been due to the kid being run down with seasickness.

Either way, there may be good stuff for parents IF we were allowed to discuss the reality of this episode.

The other point, for mothers/Drs is Charlottes blog said the sea state was so difficult the baby kept rolling around in her sleep. Would a teeny, weeny hammock work better so a baby rolls with the ship (or gimbalises against ship roll?)



Mark

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by CatInHand

No one had ever thought to predict the need to find hundreds of beds for patients until it happened.

I watched it all happen simultaneously out the window of a friend's apartment and on the TV.

Initially on NY1, the local channel, they were asking for blood donations and my friends and I were going to go give, but by the time the north tower collapsed, they were asking people NOT to come to the hospital. My friends didn't really understand what that meant but that moment really crushed me.

Sorry for the thread drift, I just had to say something. Some things just don't really ever go away.

[satdiver]

I wish they would come out and talk because I don't know how much more I can take listing to a bunch of city slicker media "analyst" talk about sub sea search and recovery for that damn black box. But that is the selfish side of me.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Good point.

Whats our forum Dr say about that? Or does salmonella die after a few days on a bench/floor?

I thought the relapse (if a relapse) may have been due to the kid being run down with seasickness.

Either way, there may be good stuff for parents IF we were allowed to discuss the reality of this episode.

The other point, for mothers/Drs is Charlottes blog said the sea state was so difficult the baby kept rolling around in her sleep. Would a teeny, weeny hammock work better so a baby rolls with the ship (or gimbalises against ship roll?)



Mark

Salmonella remains viable for months or years. And hammocks are great, with thin bungee cords to limit swaying, otherwise they can do a barrel roll. When it gets real rough it is all about pillow barricades in the vee berth.

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by Delancey

I watched it all happen simultaneously out the window of a friend's apartment and on the TV...
Sorry for the thread drift, I just had to say something. Some things just don't really ever go away.

Me too.

At work, we all heard the news and turned on the TVs.

Somebody said "here comes a replay."

Someone else: "It's not a replay."

Then the other incidents followed shortly after.

A loss of innocence for the world.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by Delfin

The other issue is determining where the child picked up the bug in the first place. Being one year old, the source is probably on board, so unless the environment was wiped down completely with bleach solution, the child could easily get reinfected even if she didn't relapse. My experience with one year olds is that if you are looking for the toilet plunger, the kid probably has it in their mouth.

Good point about the possibility of reinfection. Here's link about the survival of Salmonella on surfaces.

Long Live the Bacteria! |

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

Good point about the possibility of reinfection. Here's link about the survival of Salmonella on surfaces.

Long Live the Bacteria! |

Salmonella is powerful. There have been human deaths from feeding their dogs dog food that had Salmonella. Plus we don't know for sure it was Salmonella or another bacteria that was similar. Many seem on the surface similar and sometimes doctors tend to lump them together. One of the problems is that it's far more likely to cause serious harm or death to people in three groups-young children, seniors, and those with suppressed immune systems.