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Old 11-04-2014, 12:21   #1216
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I hope someone that knows how to post links posts a link to the Cruising World blog. There is an article about Eric and his family and what the're going through and a link to his blog. And charities.
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Old 11-04-2014, 12:35   #1217
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

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Salmonella is powerful. There have been human deaths from feeding their dogs dog food that had Salmonella. Plus we don't know for sure it was Salmonella or another bacteria that was similar. Many seem on the surface similar and sometimes doctors tend to lump them together. One of the problems is that it's far more likely to cause serious harm or death to people in three groups-young children, seniors, and those with suppressed immune systems.

Charlotte said that they had positive tests for Salmonella on March 11. Which specific variety was not mentioned. She also didn't say what type of test she had, but today's antibody based tests are pretty specific. I don't know if they use those in mexico or they had the old fashioned grow it on a plate type test.I imagine it somewhat depends on where you are in Mexico.
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Old 11-04-2014, 12:59   #1218
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

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I was reflecting this morning on having watched the air rescue crew's news conference last night and it occurred to me that there was some code-speak in there, the significance of which some people may have missed.

At one point one of the commanders responds to a question regarding the condition and capability of the crew and the commander says something to the effect of "I've got Superman standing behind me and if he says Eric is cool than that's all I need to know"

Which translates into something like "I have an amazing creatively and intellectually talented super-human who eats grenades and craps bullets, with very advanced training as a life-saving medical technician and a willingness to jump out of an airplane with an automatic rifle strapped to his back into a combat zone to save lives at total risk to his own who is standing behind me and if he tells me that his assessment of Eric is that Eric had his ****-squared away than that is all you need you need to know."

I have been privileged in my life to meet a couple guys of a similar caliber as these PJ's and could hardly imagine a firmer endorsement. It's been a rare occasion when I have found myself actually in awe of another person, but these types of guys do it to me every time.

Every dark cloud has a silver lining and I would like to imagine that if there was even only one positive outcome, it's that Eric got to meet these guys and that some potentially lasting friendships developed as a result.

Do the math on that one, six adults and two children on a Hans Christian 36 a thousand miles offshore for a couple days? In my experience you learn a lot about someone when you spend a couple days on a small boat together, it's unavoidable.

I would also like to think that the respect is a two-way street. It takes a lot of verve and tenacity to take babes across an ocean and I would like to think the PJ's would appreciate these qualities in both Eric and Charlotte.

When I look at the photo of them all standing together, their body language, looks to me like they all got along just fine on that boat together.
Thanks for the translation. It couldn't be said it better.
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Old 11-04-2014, 13:02   #1219
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

Guess they just made the drs show today. They had a discussion about the event. His brother in law was on the show..

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Old 11-04-2014, 13:06   #1220
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

Kudos to Sail Mag for stepping up and defending taking your kids cruising: Crazy people, taking children cruising | Sailfeed
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Old 11-04-2014, 13:41   #1221
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Wink Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

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Longtime lurker, first time poster.

While reading the Kaufman's blog posts, put up while the couple were underway on their aborted passage, I was struck by the fact that not only were they having a miserable time, they also seemed somewhat surprised and shocked by their boat's motion and how hard it was to move around, sleep, take care of the baby, etc. And yet the force 5 conditions they were in are quite typical offshore. At one point Eric Kaufman mentions that this is his first bluewater voyage, and then his and Charlotte's surprise begins to make sense.

Which of course begs the question: How can parents of very young children possibly make an informed decision as to whether or not they want to take their very young child and baby on a 3000 mile trans-pac cruise when they themselves have never done any offshore sailing? Like many of you, I've known dozens of cruising families with young kids, even babies aboard, but in every case I can recall, the parents had significant bluewater experience before setting out with their kids.

Putting aside all the other chatter, I think this is the most important takeaway from the Kaufman's story. Parents of young children should make an effort to learn first-hand what they are getting themselves and their children into before setting off on a major passage. Why not go crew for somebody and see what it's all about out there in the open ocean, and if it's for you and your young family?

That being said, I'm really glad that the Kaufman family made it back, and wish them all the best in their future adventures.

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I think those are reasonable observations. Without knowing enough of the facts about Eric's specific case to draw any conclusions about his situation, I do know that living on a boat tied up to a dock qualifies one to comment on blue water cruising about as much as sitting in a race car qualifies you to comment on Nascar. The degree to which your mental capabilities are diminished after intermittent sleep coupled with constant motion has to be experienced to be understood. Add to that the responsibility to take care of children with the younger the child the greater the load and you have a bit of a marathon on your hands. Cap it off with crew that all things considered would rather be somewhere else and you have a scenario where stepping off the boat might look pretty good.......
Yes, it certainly does. And some people do well, even thrive offshore, others do not, and interestingly, inshore experience is a lousy predictor. I've had crew with almost no sailing background at all do great in the middle of a pacific gale, while the "old hands" I used to race and go to Catalina with were puking their brains out. You really do have to get out there to see how you do.

For would-be bluewater cruisers with very young children, I'm a fan of crewing on a passage somewhere, for the educational value, because I've also seen folks react badly to being "stuck" on the boat in the middle of nowhere. You find out a lot about yourself during 3 weeks at sea. Important things that will inform your go/no go decision with babies aboard. In business it's called 'doing your due diligence,' and with so much a stake (like at minimum losing your home) 'diligence' is the more important d word, far ahead of 'dream.'

I know that many on this thread would like it to be one very long group hug, however the Kaufman's are safe and back in San Diego, thank God, and this CF thread is where many folks searching the internet for information as to what happened, presumably including would-be ocean sailing families, will end up. Just look at the page view numbers. Ask yourself, is the group hug and defensive tone all that you want these folks to takeaway? I would suggest that this is not in the cruising spirit of sharing the benefit of experience with the next generation of wanderers.

Oh and Reef Magnet, thanks.
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Old 11-04-2014, 13:42   #1222
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

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Guess they just made the drs show today. They had a discussion about the event. His brother in law was on the show..

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What's the drs show?
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Old 11-04-2014, 13:45   #1223
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

I guess some show that comes on before Dr Oz

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Old 11-04-2014, 13:49   #1224
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

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What's the drs show?
If you type in the google. "The Drs Show" it'll tell you
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Old 11-04-2014, 13:51   #1225
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

[QUOTE=Charlie Weber;15157

I know that many on this thread would like it to be one very long group hug, however the Kaufman's are safe and back in San Diego, thank God, and this CF thread is where many folks searching the internet for information as to what happened, presumably including would-be ocean sailing families, will end up. Just look at the page view numbers. Ask yourself, is the group hug and defensive tone all that you want these folks to takeaway? I would suggest that this is not in the cruising spirit of sharing the benefit of experience with the next generation of wanderers.

Oh and Reef Magnet, thanks.[/QUOTE]

as you may or may not know from your only 2 posts on the forum,that as the huggers leave the trolls arrive,so FYI if you want to perform a post mortem WITHOUT A BODY PRESENT,do so by all means on the forum,but start your own thread,or on any of the consequtive threads running currently,that are doing just that,equally with out any NEW information other than speculation and hearsay.

cheers atoll
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Old 11-04-2014, 14:13   #1226
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

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as you may or maynot know from your only 2 posts on the forum,that as the huggers leave the trolls arrive,so FYI if you want to perform a post mortem WITHOUT A BODY PRESENT,do so by all means on the forum,but start your own thread,or on any of the consequtive threads running currently,that are doing just that,equally with out anyNEW information other than speculation and hearsay.

cheers atoll
I think what Charlie Webber was saying is that CF can be a place, when it is allowed to, where cruisers go to get information of value to them as they make plans to voyage themselves. When a near tragedy like Rebel Heart's occurs and a young life is threatened and a boat lost, it seems like there might be quite a few learning opportunities that present themselves. If the purpose of this thread is not to provide a learning experience that might counter some of the b.s. popular media are spreading about the lunacy of taking small children voyaging, then you are probably right and another thread may be called for. Or maybe CF isn't the place to go to learn about safe and successful cruising. Someone other than me will certainly decide that issue.
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Old 11-04-2014, 14:25   #1227
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

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I think what Charlie Webber was saying is that CF can be a place, when it is allowed to, where cruisers go to get information of value to them as they make plans to voyage themselves. When a near tragedy like Rebel Heart's occurs and a young life is threatened and a boat lost, it seems like there might be quite a few learning opportunities that present themselves. If the purpose of this thread is not to provide a learning experience that might counter some of the b.s. popular media are spreading about the lunacy of taking small children voyaging, then you are probably right and another thread may be called for. Or maybe CF isn't the place to go to learn about safe and successful cruising. Someone other than me will certainly decide that issue.

if his join date was not yesterday,i would give him more rope,but as far as i can see he is on a fishing mission,probably from the media,looking for a story.

i suggest he read this thread Tolerance

before posting further on this thread,and maybe his boat name for credibility,it is a very small world out there,we can easily check his bonafides,if he has been cruising as long as he professes to have.

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Old 11-04-2014, 14:31   #1228
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

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I think what Charlie Webber was saying is that CF can be a place, when it is allowed to, where cruisers go to get information of value to them as they make plans to voyage themselves. When a near tragedy like Rebel Heart's occurs and a young life is threatened and a boat lost, it seems like there might be quite a few learning opportunities that present themselves. If the purpose of this thread is not to provide a learning experience that might counter some of the b.s. popular media are spreading about the lunacy of taking small children voyaging, then you are probably right and another thread may be called for. Or maybe CF isn't the place to go to learn about safe and successful cruising. Someone other than me will certainly decide that issue.
I agree Delfin. I couldn't help but notice about 2 hours after Eric's first post-event post there was about 50 forum members on the thread and 300 visitors. This info is always found at the bottom of the thread page. With that in mind I did start another thread Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community but no traction as of yet.

Even now that things have quieted down, there are still more visitors than members on this thread.
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Old 11-04-2014, 14:34   #1229
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

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as you may or may not know from your only 2 posts on the forum,that as the huggers leave the trolls arrive,so FYI if you want to perform a post mortem WITHOUT A BODY PRESENT,do so by all means on the forum,but start your own thread,or on any of the consequtive threads running currently,that are doing just that,equally with out anyNEW information other than speculation and hearsay.

cheers atoll
Sure, I know that Atoll, this is true all over the inter-webz, however not all non-hug comments are trolls. Mine are certainly not. Look, anyone who's hung out around cruising ports in Mexico and California has met families like the Kaufmans, eager, enthusiastic but inexperienced single-handers too, and many get slapped and come limping home, the Kaufman's just got a lot of attention because of the spectacular nature of their flameout, but they're not unique.

And it's not speculation or hearsay to read and comment upon their respective blog entries. Eric wrote this at the beginning of his last blog post while at sea:

"I remember seeing a picture of Lynn Pardey on the coach roof of her small sailboat, playing guitar up by the mast with the wind gently blowing them towards whatever tropical destination they were bound for. I'm sure many have that experience. For us, we've been in force 5 conditions for the last three days straight now."

Umm, no, many of us have not had that Pardey showbiz moment on passages in the open ocean. On the contrary, the foredeck is usually awash. Potential cruising parents with small children would find that out if they crewed somewhere first, before setting off with babies aboard. And they would find out that force five is a nice offshore day, not anything unusual at all. It's sad that people spend years preparing their boats while neglecting perhaps the most important prep of all, spending a few weeks crewing and getting some offshore experience.

For wannabes reading this heavily spidered, search friendly thread, it's an important point Atoll, and it does them no good to sweep it under the rug.

Thanks, Atoll, for your willingness to try to mount a salvage expedition for the RH, it's tragic that it didn't work out.

Cheers,
Charlie
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Old 11-04-2014, 14:37   #1230
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

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Originally Posted by atoll
;1515796if his join date was not yesterday,i would give him more rope,but as far as i can see he is on a fishing mission,probably from the media,looking for a story.

i suggest he read this thread Tolerance

before posting further on this thread,and maybe his boat name for credibility,it is a very small world out there,we can easily check his bonafides,if he has been cruising as long as he professes to have.

Tolerance

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atoll, I don't think Charlie was being unkind or "trollish" at all. In fact, I think he made some really good points. I really had no intention to jump into this fray, however, I think I needed to say that.

Hind-sight is always wiser, but I think if I had been in Erik and Charlotte's shoes, I would have done some Caribbean cruising before heading out across the big ole Pacific. It would have been a great place to practice.

This entire incident just broke my heart and I am so sorry for Erik and his family. Hopefully, good will come from it though.
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