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Old 08-04-2014, 12:55   #841
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

+1 SV-Third-Day. Bringing it up as an option to Erik right now is way out of line.
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Old 08-04-2014, 12:56   #842
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
I can already see the pressure building for Rebel Heart to take on some symbolic role in defense of the Cruising Community. There is this mindset here that says, "They need to get a new boat and continue where they left off to justify their dream, efforts". I think that is more to justify all of US. I can see the pressure building and that's a mistake to put on them.

Maybe they want this role and will knock a home run with it. BUT...maybe they won't buy another boat, maybe they don't want to go cruising again, maybe their Dream of Cruising is over? Just as those that think and said that cruising is crazy on all those new sites who in the hell are WE to put our opinions and pressures on them?

Time to back off folks and let them decide what life will bring for them next. Sure we can support them in it (and we will), but it is wrong to let our feeling/need to defend the cruising lifestyle put more pressure on them.
+100
you might find me and my family heading for the mountains with a pair of oars over my shoulder,after an ordeal such as theirs,and only settleing down when someone says "what the hell are dem thingys ya got on ya shoulder"
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Old 08-04-2014, 13:29   #843
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

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Originally Posted by fryewe View Post
Vandegrift will likely cruise at an economical speed...more likely 16-18 knots speed of advance. If 1450nm from rescue point to buoy 1SD that'll put the ship at the sea buoy late in the day on Thursday.

An alternative would be to debark them via LAMPS helo to NAS North Island early in the day.

Vandegrift could pull into Ballast Point vice 32nd St Naval Station...in which case the ship will never pass the riggers and miss the banner being flown.

Ship movements within 24 hours of arrival are unclassified and can be found by calling a local number in San Diego. Knowing the ETA would allow someone to carry the banner out past Ballast Point and parallel the ship in the channel to allow it to be seen.

I am sure news choppers will be flying to get footage and the banner would be a nice shot for them and almost certain to be shown on Eyewitness News (is that still around?)
I agree with everything you said except for Ballast Pt., the sub base. When I was stationed there and AFAIK, the only surface ships that pulled in there were sub tenders, the Dixon and McKee, both of which have been decomm'ed.
Maybe things have changed, I've just never seen a surface ship at Ballast Pt.

Your idea about paralleling the ship is an excellent one!
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Old 08-04-2014, 13:55   #844
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

Well, it does bring another point in favor of the Pardey's design philosophy. No engine. No engine, no shaft. No shaft, no shaft log or bearings to leak. No holes in the bottom of the boat...or less of them...not at all a bad idea.

It would be a good trick to get an engine in the boat without a hole for a shaft and without hanging the whole outboard mess over the side.

But even in Alaska, I don't think you can get 900 miles away from the nearest assistance. Too many bush pilots, planes, helos, small villages, some rail lines...and an extensive state "rescue" philosophy.
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Old 08-04-2014, 14:01   #845
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

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I agree with everything you said except for Ballast Pt., the sub base. When I was stationed there and AFAIK, the only surface ships that pulled in there were sub tenders, the Dixon and McKee, both of which have been decomm'ed.
Maybe things have changed, I've just never seen a surface ship at Ballast Pt.

Your idea about paralleling the ship is an excellent one!

As long as it is not slack tide or some strange wind, we should be parallel to the channel. Banners on both sides for when the tide changes.
This pic should give better perspective. That is the channel in the background.
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Old 08-04-2014, 14:09   #846
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

I think we're fooling ourselves to think that Eric is going to log on and come back here like nothing happened. He's got lots of other stops to make and stuff to deal with other than CF. He may ride this to the top as the poster boy of cruising or he might just drop out and do his own thing. As much as some wanna know more, he doesn't owe CF anything. He either loves or hates the attention. If he does pop in here, I doubt he's going to be mr chatty, probably a "this is what happened" and that's it. If he tried to have any dialog about it, it would just turn into a circus. We are not a tiny yacht club and his best buds, this is a huge online forum no different than the rest of the nasty net. We all support him but we have a guy here who continues to say "I told you so" with a back handed glad everyone's all right. Eric's not gonna want to deal with even one total dick, and the nets full of them. If something like this happened to me I would not come running back here. People like Eric so everyone's mostly supportive, if the same thing happened to a non popular member it would be a total lynching. 6 months form now dicks will still be trying to ask him "why didn't you " and it will just be easier for him to not be a active member.

I'm very aware I'm not popular here, I'm younger and very anti establishment. You people don't know anything about me but if I had been rescued I don't see it turning out the same way.

I will fully understand if Eric never really comes back.

I saw a comment scoobert put on Facebook about rebel, uncalled for and tasteless especially coming from him.
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Old 08-04-2014, 14:28   #847
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

Popularity is a fleeting thing HH. If you get it your probably not worth listening to.
I hope Erik comes back to say hi. But if he just disappears, that will be OK too. Life is too short for all the angst. It's a beautiful day outside. Time to go out in it.
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Old 08-04-2014, 14:37   #848
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

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As a fellow sailor and soon to be cruiser, I feel the need to express to the members of this forum kudos for keeping comments mostly positive regarding Rebel Heart.

I too have followed the blog for a couple of years and do not hold it against anyone who wishes to follow their dreams. I will never condemn anyone for a chosen lifestyle. Unfortunately the life style we, and others, have chosen comes into question when something of this magnitude happens. The decision to sail RTW with young children aboard has now become a fiercely debated topic. Now doubt this will continue for some time.

I wish to express my deepest gratitude to all the members of the rescue teams. It makes me proud to be an American tax payer when I witness men jumping out of a plane into the ocean to go, without question or regard of their own safety, to the aid of a young child.

As fellow sailors we are all obligated to help a vessel in distress. I would never question having to go to the aid of another vessel. I am certain Eric and Charlotte would have sailed miles to assist another sailor. Unfortunately, it was them needing the support. I am gratified they had the necessary equipment aboard to communicate their dire needs.

When an event like this happens and everybody comes out unscathed, all the people involved did everything right.


It made me very sad to see the picture of the Rebel Heart's wheel being handed off to the rescue boat. As a person who has rebuilt a boat (once was enough), I know first hand the connection made between the living and inanimate. That was hard to see.
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Old 08-04-2014, 14:43   #849
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

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Originally Posted by deckofficer View Post
as sailors we know the frigate cruises at 25 kt, so 600 nm daily runs.
USS Vandegrift is Oliver Hazard Perry (FFG 7) class frigate (long hulled version).
They were built with quite simple (even if automated) gas turbine propulsion plant, with two only turbines, both as a main engines (they were second class of US warships with gas turbines, and COGAG or COGOG systems were not at wider use at the time, and these ships were designed as quite uncomplex, to enable the mass production. 71 ships were built, 51 of them for US Navy).

The maximum operational speed of the ship is 29 knots (short time flank is just over 30 knots). With this type of propulsion plant the economical (cruise) speed is probably not more than 20 knots, so daily run of about 420 - 480 nm is most probable, if USS Vandergrift is not speeding for some reason.

Best regards

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Old 08-04-2014, 14:46   #850
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

I almost think this all will keep him away. Is it possible cf is making this bigger than it really needs to be. He docent have to explain any thing and i am incline to think if this was i after all this i wouldn't either. It will all blow over a day or 2 and new news will take over. Let him know your thankfully there all going to be OK, and sadness for his loss, help if you want to and thats it.
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Old 08-04-2014, 14:58   #851
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

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I'm very aware I'm not popular here, I'm younger and very anti establishment. You people don't know anything about me but if I had been rescued I don't see it turning out the same way.

I will fully understand if Eric never really comes back.

I saw a comment scoobert put on Facebook about rebel, uncalled for and tasteless especially coming from him.
Don't be too hard on yourself. It's hard enough for people to agree on just about anything, to get everyone to hate you at the same time is nearly impossible! LOL

In all seriousness, I always say you don't really know people over the internet, only in person, by their actions. I've seen an entire website fooled into adoring a funny Aussie guy, only to find out it was a mentally unstable girl from LA.

I have no problem admitting I don't know Eric. I've seen a few of his posts on here, but I've never met him, or read his blog. The things I have done or will do for them are done purely out of a sense of decency, there is no popularity factor in it. I despise that whole elementary school "I know the popular people! I'm somebody!! Look at me!!" drama queen mentally that is exhibited by some people. That's just something they never outgrew. There will always be a few in every group. More so on social media sites.

If you're ever in a similar position, I'll do the same for you, because it's the right thing to do, not because I perceive you as popular or not. Hell, you could argue with me on every topic till you're blue in the face, it makes no difference. If someone needs help and I can give it, I will. That's one of many reasons I'll never get rich. LOL

As for Eric, time will tell. In time, he may swing by to see all of his old friends. I certainly would. He has every reason to be proud of his decisions and come back here and visit with those he shares so much in common with.
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Old 08-04-2014, 15:09   #852
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

I've seen a few comments on here about sailing or cruising getting unwanted attention leading to it coming under fire or getting legislated to death. Maybe I'm naive, but I see sailing as one of the last bastions of freedom, where there are rules of the road, and maritime law, but nobody actively trying to shut it down.

I'm also into shooting and offroading. If you want to talk about 2 sports that are actively being targeted by those who want to control the world from the safety of their bubble wrapped couches, those are the ones! We're spending millions per year in legal battles to keep offroad areas open and protect our gun rights.

Yes, there are some ignorant people posting negative comments on news sites. Be glad it's not a team of environmental lawyers writing briefs and bribing scumball "biologists" to write fiction.
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Old 08-04-2014, 15:32   #853
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

That one seems abit political.
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Old 08-04-2014, 15:37   #854
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

Very nice piece in Slate today by Diane Selkirk, about raising kids on boats, with plenty of reference to Rebel Heart.

Rebel Heart sailboat rescue: Eric and Charlotte Kaufman are part of my community, and we’re good parents.

Apologies if this link has already been posted. . . I try to keep up with this thread, but I'm sure I missed a page or two.
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Old 08-04-2014, 15:44   #855
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Re: Forum Member's Boat and Daughter in Trouble off of Mexico

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The honest blogs are the only ones worth reading. If they're too edited, they turn into "look at me, living the great life" plastic blogs. Who cares if people don't agree with you? This isn't a world where everyone has to agree about everything, is it? Aren't we fighting very hard so everyone can have their own honest opinion?

If groupthink wins, what have we accomplished with this experiment in democracy? We're back to 18th century France.

If you have a 16 year old in your house, you'll likely notice a lot of selfies and texting going on, and possibly instagram and facebook accounts. The amount of time people spend on these is tremendous. One danger, of course, is that people start to try and edit their lives with these things, and leave out all the imperfections. Then they read about all the other perfect lives and feel less secure about theirs. This leads to a lot of depressed 15 year olds who then have to take medications for their unhappiness.

If you're willing to live in the public view, live in the public view. Be unapologetic about your choices. They're yours to make. It's OK for others to disagree.

Disclaimer: If you're a cannibal or doing something illegal, your blog will likely be used in a court of law against you.
That's different from a person on a forum averaging 3 posts a day?
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