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Old 07-04-2014, 14:54   #691
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

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I've read most of this thread and I apologize in advance if I am merely saying "me too" to something that has been said already but I haven't seen it explicitly stated. I've read a few accounts of ocean disasters and I think it is generally agreed that every disaster starts well in advance of the actual climax and eventually develops its own momentum which leads inevitably to the disastrous climax. Sometimes it takes only one questionable decision and sometimes it takes a multitude but eventually the die is cast and there is only one possible outcome. I hope when this is all behind them that Eric and Charlotte are brave and honest enough to come forward and talk about the real causes of their disaster.

It also needs to be said that this Cruisers Forum group is a pretty good bunch. This is a remarkably long running thread and it hasn't degenerated into vitriol or name calling as it quickly would have on most forums if such a traumatic event was being discussed.
Bob,

Read their blogs, they are honest to a fault, no sugar coating, just honest writing that doesn't pull any punches.
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Old 07-04-2014, 15:03   #692
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

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Yeah, not sure if they could insure that old boat, for that purpose, with their experience. Even if, then abandon or sink it?..hmm suspect their aint gonna be a payout! I suppose everyone is waiting with baited breath to hear the real story.
There are companies that will insure older boats for that purpose I used Pantaenius and I know they have worked with friends with much older boats than mine. A new survey was required and all the other typical things. I don't remember them asking me much about my experience they did verify my Captains lic but it was not even a requirement. They did have some stipulations such as amount of crew and coverage zones but said I could add places as I needed. Your plan determines much of what your premium will be as well. Mine was not that bad price wise.

As far as payout that is what insurance is for unless they can prove you did not do everything in your power to prevent the loss or you have a record of claims and in that case you'll probably not get insured anyway. I would say in Rebel Hearts case it would be very hard for them to prove that unless they were going to send out a salvage team and do an investigation.
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Old 07-04-2014, 15:10   #693
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

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Most comments on the major sites about any topic are at best mis-informed and at worst completely bat-s*** crazy.

Reading through CNN or even ESPN makes me lose points from my IQ.
Yes. Well, we live in a world where a mother was arrested for allowing her child to bike around their suburban cul de sac unattended. These people think small children are safest parked in front of the flat screen TV with an Ipad in their hands.
I've already been approached by people at work (who know I sail) who had to get my take on this, and I defended the Kaufman's decision. Would I go sailing with a one year old and three year old? To me that sounds like my personal version of hell (especially now having read Charlotte's entries during the passage), but this was their decision to make and as far as I understand they were prepared for the voyage.
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Old 07-04-2014, 15:35   #694
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

A note on the decision to abandon:

The skipper from "The Perfect Storm" sailboat (a Westsail 32) had a crew member radio for help without his knowledge. The story is here. In the quote below, you can see that he was ordered off his boat and felt that he had no choice but to comply.

I don't know if Eric made the decision freely (and I would support him in that), but it is possible that he was ordered to abandon. A number of posters have stated that he was on the "high seas" or was the captain and that it was his call. It is my understanding that the coast guard can declare a voyage to be "manifestly unsafe" and order people off a vessel. The vessel is US flagged and therefore under US law, whether or not it is in US waters. I don't know if this is what happened in this case.

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Ray transmitted back that the boat was O.K. but the crew wanted to get off. The Falcon stayed in the area and maintained radio contact. Sometime around 5AM a frightened crew member relayed more information to the Falcon. According to the Coast Guard records, "S/V [sailing vessel] Satori also reported losing fuel tank and power to engine" and "In the early morning hours, S/V Satori began to take on water". In fact Satori was not taking on water (a few gallons had come in on the last knockdown, but that was 12 hours earlier), she had never lost fuel or power to the engine. Satori had over half her original fuel, enough to run the engine for 40 hours. Ray does not know who made the 5 AM transmissions. These miscommunications and the frightened voices of the crew probably caused the Coast Guard to decide that everyone must be evacuated.

Within a couple of hours a helicopter flew over and raised them on the radio indicating that the Tamaroa, a Coast vessel, was going to try and contact them on the VHF. When the Tamaroa arrived and called the Satori Ray again reported that the boat was O.K., that he wanted to stay, but that the crew wanted to get off. The Captain of Tamaroa radioed back and told Ray that he had specific orders from Headquarters in Boston to remove everyone from the boat. Ray knew that if he refused the order to abandon ship he could loose his captain's license and Satori's Coast Guard documentation. His boat could then be prohibited from entering American ports
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Old 07-04-2014, 15:40   #695
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

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A note on the decision to abandon:

The skipper from "The Perfect Storm" sailboat (a Westsail 32) had a crew member radio for help without his knowledge. The story is here. In the quote below, you can see that he was ordered off his boat and felt that he had no choice but to comply.

I don't know if Eric made the decision freely (and I would support him in that), but it is possible that he was ordered to abandon. A number of posters have stated that he was on the "high seas" or was the captain and that it was his call. It is my understanding that the coast guard can declare a voyage to be "manifestly unsafe" and order people off a vessel. The vessel is US flagged and therefore under US law, whether or not it is in US waters. I don't know if this is what happened in this case.



The way I always understood it was that the captain can choose to not comply with the order to abandon but will have consequences such as loosing his captains license and such.
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Old 07-04-2014, 15:47   #696
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

All the better reason to not have a license. I recall that the westsail captain has not spoken to one of the crew that day since they got rescued and the other just briefly. He was bitter and had every right to be.
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Old 07-04-2014, 15:48   #697
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

I have been following the Rebel Heart blog for quite some time.

The things I have read since this tragedy happened, especially the things people have written on Charlotte's blog just blow my mind. The word that comes to mind first is evil...just plain evil.

I live in San Diego, and got the news over the radio on my afternoon drive home.

Charlotte's brother was being interviewed. Not a nice guy. Best she stay away from him too.

I hope Eric and Charlotte don't read a single word of anything on the blog, and simply delete the entire thing at the first possible opportunity.

I also hope with the deepest sincerity that they are able, some how, some way to pick up and continue on. Hopefully, they WONT blog about it when they do.

Reading all the evil comments, many of them by women, directed to a woman who was in fear for her child just convinces me that it's best to surround yourself with like minded individuals who are ACTUALLY out doing it, living the life, and walking the walk. It makes ZERO sense to publicly broadcast your lifestyle to a world full of "instant experts" and keyboard cowards.

For me, my mind is now 100% made up. I wont be starting a blog when I do the puddle jump, or cast off the dock lines for good.

The last thing I or anybody else needs is some "Dudley do right" thinking they have a right to decide how I can live my life or raise my family.

Nuff said.
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Old 07-04-2014, 16:01   #698
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

The haters will be done in a week or two, however, the blog will likely have gained a number of legitimate followers enchanted by Charlotte's style. This, in turn, can help them fund whatever it is they decide to do next. It would be a loss to the genre of creative non-fiction if she were to choose to stop blogging.
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Old 07-04-2014, 16:02   #699
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

I don't know Eric or Charlotte, but wish them well and hope they can continue on with the dream; AND that they can look past the critics and continue to share their story.
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Old 07-04-2014, 16:14   #700
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

Greenhand, some people are threatening to call child welfare services on her. FYI, CWS in San Diego has a long and filthy reputation. The blog will be used against these loving parents by evil people. Sorry, but the damage the haters can do wont be gone in a week.
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Old 07-04-2014, 16:17   #701
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

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Another rescued on the way to NZ - Canadian solo sailor.

'Mercy dash' to help solo sailor headed to NZ - National - NZ Herald News
King Neptune is building his fleet lately. Third one I heard since this happened. The other was in BC.
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Old 07-04-2014, 16:18   #702
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

http://metronews.ca/news/vancouver/9...f-b-c-s-coast/
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Old 07-04-2014, 16:29   #703
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

Rather than more endless speculation, how about looking at the positive? In every tragic story there are lessons to learn. Here are few of my take away…what are yours.

1. The Family is safe thanks to the dedicated folks that make little money yet put themselves at risks for the lives of others.



2. If the crew of Rebel Heart would not have had some type of communication (SSB/Spot/Etc) then this could have been a horror story with a dead child. So the folks out there saying all you need is a VHF radio…well….that won’t help when the unexpected strikes and you are out of VHF range.


3. I already knew this, but got a sad confirmation that ANYTHING you say on a blog can and WILL be used against you in the court of public opinion.

I’m sure there are other lessons…..but these are the two that leap out to me….
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Old 07-04-2014, 16:30   #704
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

Thank you NYTs editors

Please read:

http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2...ype=blogs&_r=0
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Old 07-04-2014, 16:37   #705
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

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Originally Posted by SV MAKAI View Post
I have been following the Rebel Heart blog for quite some time.

The things I have read since this tragedy happened, especially the things people have written on Charlotte's blog just blow my mind. The word that comes to mind first is evil...just plain evil.

I live in San Diego, and got the news over the radio on my afternoon drive home.

Charlotte's brother was being interviewed. Not a nice guy. Best she stay away from him too.

I hope Eric and Charlotte don't read a single word of anything on the blog, and simply delete the entire thing at the first possible opportunity.

I also hope with the deepest sincerity that they are able, some how, some way to pick up and continue on. Hopefully, they WONT blog about it when they do.

Reading all the evil comments, many of them by women, directed to a woman who was in fear for her child just convinces me that it's best to surround yourself with like minded individuals who are ACTUALLY out doing it, living the life, and walking the walk. It makes ZERO sense to publicly broadcast your lifestyle to a world full of "instant experts" and keyboard cowards.

For me, my mind is now 100% made up. I wont be starting a blog when I do the puddle jump, or cast off the dock lines for good.

The last thing I or anybody else needs is some "Dudley do right" thinking they have a right to decide how I can live my life or raise my family.

Nuff said.

I would strongly urge you to reconsider. Your blog may very well inspire other like minded people to do as you did.

Be who you are, be confident in your decisions and abilities, and pay no attention whatsoever to those who want to tear you down. Take good advice from those who are experienced and well intentioned, pay no attention to the drama queens and the naysayers. Living well is the best revenge, and it's own sweet reward.
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