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Old 03-06-2019, 16:37   #1
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Follow The Hoses!

Listening to Beastie Boys in the engine compartment, staring at the engine. Determined to Don Casey/Cruiser's Forum this mother. Many hoses and a god awful junction of copper pipe not remotely in good shape. Will address that in the fall. For now, gotta put all these hoses somewhere and get this beast running for the season.

Does this seem right?

The hose from the thermostat housing goes to far right bib in Copper Junction (that's the hose from the thermostat dangling in the second photo). From Copper Junction a hose goes into the exhaust loop and a third pipe exiting Copper Junction, the little fella in the middle is a vent. Does that seem like the right path to cool the exhaust?

Ma Bell, I got the ill communication. Click image for larger version

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Old 03-06-2019, 18:38   #2
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Re: Follow The Hoses!

Does not appear even remotely right from where I am sitting.

More photos would help, but I can think of no reason for a "vent" as you describe it. Maybe an anti-siphon on the input side to the pump, but between the engine and the exhaust, no way.

Those pipes look more like they might go to a calorifier for hot water. Is there such as system on the boat?

I assume the engine is raw water cooled? It might help us here if you let us know the make and model. Someone might have the same engine. It is green, so I guess it might be a Volvo?
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Old 03-06-2019, 19:00   #3
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Re: Follow The Hoses!

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Does not appear even remotely right from where I am sitting.

More photos would help, but I can think of no reason for a "vent" as you describe it. Maybe an anti-siphon on the input side to the pump, but between the engine and the exhaust, no way.

Those pipes look more like they might go to a calorifier for hot water. Is there such as system on the boat?

I assume the engine is raw water cooled? It might help us here if you let us know the make and model. Someone might have the same engine. It is green, so I guess it might be a Volvo?
Thank you GILow. It is a Volvo Penta MD11C. I can't find anything online with this setup.
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Old 03-06-2019, 19:04   #4
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Re: Follow The Hoses!

There is every chance this is a total kludge's by past owner. I am finding and rectifying problems.

There was a hot water system on the boat. It was a rust bucket along with copper pipes. Copper Junction here doesn't seem to be attached to it.

Where would the hose from thermostat connect to? I seem to remember reading something about it going to exhaust loop and out the boat.
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Old 03-06-2019, 19:33   #5
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Re: Follow The Hoses!

I can’t offer much help with your engine other than to suggest finding an engine manual to guide you and to replace the worst stuff even if for just this season as a blown hose can cause some grief. Exhaust hose is pricey but the others are not too bad.
Are you in the water? Did you solve the stuffing box challenge?
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Old 03-06-2019, 19:46   #6
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Re: Follow The Hoses!

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I canít offer much help with your engine other than to suggest finding an engine manual to guide you and to replace the worst stuff even if for just this season as a blown hose can cause some grief. Exhaust hose is pricey but the others are not too bad.
Are you in the water? Did you solve the stuffing box challenge?
Shoalcove!!!! Yes, we launched Friday. We solved stuffing box and replaced CB and installed new prop shaft. Exhilarating stuff, this learning curve. Thanks for all your help.

After the engine comes the mast and then SAILING!!!
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Old 03-06-2019, 21:51   #7
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Re: Follow The Hoses!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Buck View Post
There is every chance this is a total kludge's by past owner. I am finding and rectifying problems.

There was a hot water system on the boat. It was a rust bucket along with copper pipes. Copper Junction here doesn't seem to be attached to it.

Where would the hose from thermostat connect to? I seem to remember reading something about it going to exhaust loop and out the boat.
Yep, as I suspected. There was no other logical explanation for that pipework, it had to be some kind of hot water system.

Now, I don't know the MD11, but I did find this and it made sense...

https://pearson323.com/documents/Vol...lingSystem.pdf

Edit: HOWEVER, I am surprised to see there IS a siphon break between the thermostat and the exhaust elbow. Clearly my head is a bit muddled by all this. My cooling system is VERY different and gets around the problem by injecting the water into the exhaust WELL above the waterline.
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Old 03-06-2019, 21:52   #8
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Re: Follow The Hoses!

I know I don't need to say this, but I will say it anyway...

Don't take any shortcuts with the engine cooling. A struggling cooling system adds a LOT of stress to a boat owner's life.

Don't ask me how I know this.
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Old 03-06-2019, 21:54   #9
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Re: Follow The Hoses!

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Shoalcove!!!! Yes, we launched Friday. We solved stuffing box and replaced CB and installed new prop shaft. Exhilarating stuff, this learning curve. Thanks for all your help.

After the engine comes the mast and then SAILING!!!
Thatís great news! Congratulations!
Iím sure the engine wonít hold you down for long. The rig will probably be much simpler and satisfying to deal with. I just got my stick in and sails on the last few days. Iím looking forward to getting out for a sail soon!
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Old 04-06-2019, 03:18   #10
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Re: Follow The Hoses!

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Originally Posted by GILow View Post
Yep, as I suspected. There was no other logical explanation for that pipework, it had to be some kind of hot water system.

Now, I don't know the MD11, but I did find this and it made sense...

https://pearson323.com/documents/Vol...lingSystem.pdf

Edit: HOWEVER, I am surprised to see there IS a siphon break between the thermostat and the exhaust elbow. Clearly my head is a bit muddled by all this. My cooling system is VERY different and gets around the problem by injecting the water into the exhaust WELL above the waterline.
Thank you GILow. That schematic is exactly what I was looking for. That elbow is above the waterline so I should be able to go from the thermostat to the exhaust, get rid of Copper Junction all together, yes?

The hot water heater was not attached to the engine at all. What a mess. And what a thrill trying to figure it all out. What did people do before Cruiser's Forum?
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Old 04-06-2019, 03:35   #11
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Re: Follow The Hoses!

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Thank you GILow. That schematic is exactly what I was looking for. That elbow is above the waterline so I should be able to go from the thermostat to the exhaust, get rid of Copper Junction all together, yes?
Ummmm.... maybe? Sorry, don't want to go out on a limb here because your post has made me realise I hadn't actually understood the placement of an anti-siphon valve as well as I thought.

IF you are sure that all components are above the waterline and that there is NO way a siphon could occur that could either flood the boat or flood the engine block, then yes, I guess so. But wiser heads than mine should be consulted I think. Maybe a new thread would be a good idea? With some good photos to show what you are thinking of.

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What did people do before Cruiser's Forum?
Well, speaking for myself, I slept a heck of a lot easier at anchor before I started reading on Cruisers Forum. Some of the threads here are not good for my peace of mind.
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Old 04-06-2019, 12:16   #12
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Re: Follow The Hoses!

Reading Calder on siphon breaks and I'm thinking that's what was attempted/achieved with the Copper Junction T - a siphon break of sorts.
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Old 04-06-2019, 17:50   #13
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Follow The Hoses!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Buck View Post
Reading Calder on siphon breaks and I'm thinking that's what was attempted/achieved with the Copper Junction T - a siphon break of sorts.


Calder is the right place to look. But the junction would need something like a joker valve for it to work as a siphon break. Or I suppose, maybe it could just run a hose up very high in the boat and trust to gravity to force the water into the exhaust but any kind of back pressure would make a heck of a mess.
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Old 04-06-2019, 18:52   #14
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Re: Follow The Hoses!

My old system just had a smaller hose that went to a thruhull high on the hull sides next to a tank vent. It acted as an anti siphon and seemed to work fine. I replaced it with a flapper style anti siphon valve but I’m not really sure it’s any better. The other worked for 30 years...
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Old 04-06-2019, 19:02   #15
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Re: Follow The Hoses!

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Originally Posted by Shoalcove View Post
My old system just had a smaller hose that went to a thruhull high on the hull sides next to a tank vent. It acted as an anti siphon and seemed to work fine. I replaced it with a flapper style anti siphon valve but Iím not really sure itís any better. The other worked for 30 years...
Maybe this was the same sort of thing after all then?

I feel like it would be vulnerable to back pressure, but then my exhaust has a huge lift to manage, the top of the final goosneck is nearly 1.3 meters above the waterline.
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